Copper State Firemen Podcast
Copper State Firemen
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Podcast for Firemen burning the ships of Complacency, Laziness, and Excuses. We are promoting love and passion for the job, encouraging eagerness, and mastering the craft of the Fire Service!
The information, opinions, values, recommendations, and ideas are of the host and individuals on this podcast, and are not affiliated or endorsed by the fire department, organization, or companies the individuals works for. This podcast is for general information only! Indorced by Copper State Fools and Solid Fondation team LLC.
Copper State Firemen Podcast
Training Culture and Risk Management Insights
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Discover the fascinating insights of Billy Burnett, a seasoned fire captain with over two decades of experience in the American Fire Service. Billy shatters the illusion that time in service automatically equals expertise, advocating instead for a growth mindset and continuous learning. By sharing his journey, Billy reveals the profound satisfaction derived from training new recruits and enhancing technical rescue programs, showcasing his dedication and humility.
Throughout our conversation, we explore the many facets of the fire service, from the critical elements of training culture and technical rescue operations to the public's expectations and the delicate balance between risk management and safety. Billy's personal stories highlight the importance of mentorship, embracing failures, and the rewarding transition into private industry as a rope tech. This episode underscores the relentless pursuit of continuous improvement and the significant impact of supportive training environments.
We also touch on the evolving nature of the fire service post-9/11, with a focus on technological advancements and the expansion of technical rescue programs. Emphasizing the importance of effective communication and resource sharing, Billy draws from his own experiences to illustrate how passion and dedication can foster a culture of growth and support within the fire service community. Don't miss out on the inspiring stories and invaluable lessons shared in this engaging conversation with a true fire service professional.
that decrediting portion. So here's, here's a misnomer, and I think this is, this is a. This, to me, is very personal. Time on the job, like years of service, does not equate to proficiency or professionalism, right? What's the what's the cliche? It's like you can have 10 years on a job, or you can have one year repeated 10 times, right, we all know that. So for me, like I tell young instructors that, or our young ones, you're here for a reason, right?
Speaker 2:Welcome everybody. Copper State Fireman Podcast. This podcast is for firemen burning the ships of complacency, laziness and excuses. We're promoting love and passion for the job, encouraging eagerness and mastering the craft of the fire service. Remember the information, opinion, values, recommendation and ideas are the host and the individuals of this podcast and are not affiliated or endorsed by the fire departments, organization or companies. The individuals work for. This podcast is for general information use only. Brought to you by the Copper State Fools and sponsored by Solid Foundation Team LLC. Let's go All right, everybody, welcome back. This is another episode of Copper State Fireman Podcast.
Speaker 2:Today I have the privilege to sit down with Billy Barnett. He is a fire captain right now, 21 years in the American Fire Service. He is a TRT nerd, a specialist, whatever you want to put on that. We'll talk about that in a second. And hazmat tech Career highlights for Billy is recruit. Training officers is a big ticket item, which is amazing, something that I have the privilege to do in here in the near future.
Speaker 2:Job titles in and out of the fire service. He says his proudest title outside of the fire service is dad, which that's mad respect. Right there he's been a technical rescue program manager. And then big ticket items that Billy's proud of training, obviously the new firefighters, not only in the academy that arrived to his truck. He takes great pride in Part of the team. He's been part of the team to grow his city's tech rescue program, which is huge. This man's taught nationally and he teaches technical rescue to everyone in the Valley and hence how I even met Billy. I met Billy when I went to tech school myself and the tech guy. So anytime I ever had a question, I've always respected and looked up to this man. So it's a privilege to be able to sit down with you today, brother. Is there anything I missed?
Speaker 1:in the intro. No, great man, as you were talking. Actually, what I was thinking is I felt this little wave of pressure Like, oh man, people are going to actually think I know what I'm talking about. That's a long. We want to talk about that today a little bit.
Speaker 1:But you know, when you, when you hear your own um resume, kind of right back to you, you know the things that are important and the things you don't think about. But it you know, reflecting on what you get to do and how you get to serve. For me it's like getting to serve in the fire service, like I, I love that part of it. I love serving my brothers and my sisters in that regard. So that part of it, I love serving my brothers and my sisters in that regard. So I think when you talk about training, you hear those things all I really like kind of like the part that made me like, oh man, that's kind of always been my why, you know, like that's always kind of driven me and to be able to actually carry that out, to be able to, you know, live, that part of my interview, so to speak, is really cool, it's just that's satisfying. Right Positions, titles is really cool. It's just that's satisfying.
Speaker 1:Right Positions, titles, responsibilities, ranks, that stuff comes and goes right. That stuff is awesome when you achieve those mile markers. But that aspect of really being able to help and shape, you know, our families, helping people, that is that's awesome. That makes me feel like man. I did what I said I was going to do right and I was gonna. I'm living out that thing and I love it Right and that's how we met and obviously I'm very passionate about not only technical rescue training but I'm passionate about, like this growth mindset and this never ending learning Like I get to interact with.
Speaker 1:I feel very, very lucky that I get to interact with what I think are like experts in my field. Very, very lucky that I get to interact with what I think are like experts in my field and every time I meet them, they're so humble and willing to share and like they just they're people you want to be around and so being just being able to be mentioned, the same breath is hanging out with those folks or getting the opportunity to train other firefighters from other cities or or even nationally have done a couple of times. Um, super humbling right, Super, super, super humbling.
Speaker 2:So, thank you, I appreciate the intro there Absolutely Well, as you guys can tell just from the first couple of minutes of this podcast, billy is a very humble dude, but don't let him and his words confuse you, so I'll speak upon his behalf right here.
Speaker 2:He is one of the most knowledgeable guys, especially in his craft, and the thing that makes billy the best, right, is that his attitude and effort, right. We always talk about that with new guys and everything else. Hey, how can you be successful and billy's live in that interview? He'd mentioned that before. So his attitude and effort are always top freaking notch and that's why guys are willing to listen to him and that's why he's been so successful in his 21 years in the american fire service so far.
Speaker 2:So, dude, let's, let's get right into it like real quick. So it's you know, like, so we're here to talk about training. Culture is actually our topic today, but before we even kind of deep dive into that, like, let's just talk on that tech rescue side. I mean, that's how, that's how we met, so and that's that's, that's definitely your wheel. I mean, you have multiple wheelhouses but, like, for me, it's like man, if I'm going to go to that guy for tech rescue, you're the first name on the list I'm going to call if I have a question. So let's go down that avenue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. So I, very, very early in my career, got to go to here regionally in the valley, the beautiful valley of the sun. It's actually rainy today, which is weird. But I'm just watching outside. It's awesome, beautiful valley of the sun. That's actually rainy today, which is weird. But uh, I'm just watching outside my awesome great day to do a podcast.
Speaker 1:But, um, yeah, I started real young. I got to go to trp school regionally, um, when I had two years on the job, um, and if, if, for those you know, both in the valley and then actually that that's kind of rare because it is not a lot of opportunity comes when you're that young on the job to go to a specialty school. I always kid and I say that that program is kind of like day camp for firefighters, you know, because it's so much fun. It literally I think I'm unbiased, but I know is some of the most fun you're going to have in the fire service, right, you get to propel and you're learning. You get to play with cool tools and you get to fly around the helicopter. You get to play with cool tools and you get to fly around in a helicopter and you get people. What I noticed and what really hooked me in is when I went I'm like, oh man, this, this, I would do this for free, right like you know like you, know the feeling everybody
Speaker 1:knows that feeling. And so when you get to there you know I'm this young, um, young in a lot of ways, right, and we'll get into like what I think is that growth kind of overall trajectory of training and growing in the fire service, but young, enthusiastic, probably a little arrogant, you know, like just that typical. And I got that program and I was just so happy to be there and to be part of that. It was, it was awesome and I would honestly consider, like in the tech rescue world I always tell people this is a um, I'm a pretty, I'm a pretty average rope tech. I wasn't, uh, you know I wasn't savant, I didn't born out of this um I, I typically have to work really hard to get good at something. Um, and I have to fail, um, I fail a lot and I learn a lot from my failures and I've always been willing, even in that like I always like wanted to jump up and be first, even if I failed it, because I wanted to get those reps right, because I knew if failing on the training ground or and I mean failing like learning, like obviously we have we talk about failure. We want to make sure that in those environments that it's a safe place to fail, right, we're not going to hurt or injure that. That's not, that's not the train. But hey, you messed up that knot or that rigging wasn't as clean as we wanted it to be, or the shoring wasn't as clean as we wanted it to be. I wanted those reps because I knew that, if I learned here that when we went out, when that light bar goes off and we go out and help people, I wanted to be the person who got to do the skill. Right.
Speaker 1:Technical rescue is one of those things where it's very player derivative. Right, technical rescue is one of those things where it's very player derivative in the fire service. You know, at least for us here. You know we have, we have a ton of resources and we all want to get into the game. Right, we want, we want to be. The people that I want to be around are the ones who want to do the work. And if you want to do the work, you got to be good at it, because not everybody's going to get to be the person on the end of the rope or running the call. Everyone has a very important place in the team, but I just, I always like I was just passionate about it, so it was very fortunate.
Speaker 1:Young, great training. I will still argue that we have some of the best, if not the best, nationally training for what we do, and that has been built over a long time, long before I got in the fire service, and I'll be here long after I'm retired. And that has been built over a long time, long before I got in the fire service, and I'll be here long after I'm retired. But that was my start, right? And so you meet these people. We, we do this in the valley, where you have people from all over the valley. So it was one of the first times that I got to train with people from all of the people from like down south and like the Tucson region that were in that class. You get to meet all these similar people who, in a certain way, are always kind of they're on the same kind of journey. You are because nobody really gets forced really not that I know of to go to these schools, right, these are people who want to be there and that creates a really cool training environment because everyone is like this is awesome, right, I had to go from technical rescue school.
Speaker 1:I got done with that. And then a few months later I had to go to hazmat. Well, hazmat training is a little bit different, um, it's a classroom setting. You're learning. I remember the first day is like we're doing chemistry, and I'm like, oh man, this is not PRT. I still love that world. I think that's great training, um, but you know, you go in there and you're like it, uh, it, it. You see the, the, the difference in the styles of training and really that's really amazing training as well. I will argue that that program is probably one of the best in the nation as well, um, but that TRT just lit that fire in me and so I have two years on the job when I went and um, just continue just to participate, and there we'll, we'll get a little. I'll touch on it right now.
Speaker 1:I think people need to be honest and I'm always honest with myself that you're not always going to be like there's different highs and lows in your career. Right, I had a mentor who would think I talk about like, hey, your career isn't always just on this upward trajectory, right, not everything is always easy, you don't. It's not always going to be sunshine and rainbows. Right, you're going to have ups and downs and you're going to learn, you're going to grow, and at 20 years old starting in the fire service to now being 42 in the fire service, life happens. And so I think when I look back at those first years, I was just still trying to figure it out, right, I was trying to figure out the fire service Right, and not alone. Also, being in your 20s in the fire service Right Spent a lot of time there.
Speaker 1:I was very fortunate. I then started. I got an opportunity to work in the private industry as a rope tech, like just doing standby rescue stuff. That really, to me, opened up a door that I didn't know existed, because all of a sudden basically the best way to describe it is you're exposed to all sorts of different rope philosophy, different places, different venues, and that's your. The one hat that you're wearing right Is that rescue tech.
Speaker 1:So that piece outside of the fire service really helped my growth and that's where I started to find that, oh, maybe I want to do more in this craft, right, I want to learn more, I want to do more, I want to. So I just started taking classes and going to training and being like oh man, there's more out there. Really super cool that you know there's guys like Tom Penley, who runs Desert I'm not sure the name of his company, drr, but he writes the Fog Manual, national speaker, the subject matter expert, one of the best ever. He's from this region. Get to meet him, learn from him and then, subsequently, all the people who are around that group. So, really, all of a sudden, I'm in this place where I'm like, hey, I really want to do more with this and I want to teach.
Speaker 1:So I was asking to be part of regional training for a long time and that kind of ebbs and flows that costs money for your departments, right, and I had got an opportunity in, I want to say, 2012, 2013, maybe 2014, somewhere in there um, to start teaching regionally and teaching continuing education.
Speaker 1:And, man, when I got that opportunity, I never looked back, right, I, my bosses will tell you that I was. I got pulled, no, so much because I would be asked hey, can I do this, can I do this? And then that started to grow, um, and that's how I got into the whole teaching thing. It was really cool. I'll see new people, I'll see people who are coming up and we in our organization are really trying to make the pathway to become an instructor or subject matter expert, whatever they call it. We try to make that path really large so that we can get people the training and the education and the experience they need to go out and be instructors, right. Um, that piece right there of hey, how do I become an expert? You've been in the fire service a long time as well. There used to be this mentality that they would send you to a class and then you come back and you teach it right.
Speaker 1:You've experienced that like, oh, we sent you now, yeah, yeah the train, the trainer idea, basically yeah, train the trainer, come back, and part of the the challenge with that it's not a problem, it's a challenge is that you may not have the experience or the time to really grow right. And so I was given this great opportunity and I try to replicate that for others is that, hey, you get to learn, you get to help teach, you teach a little bit, you get some more experience, you get some confidence, and then you start to grow and then you watch these, these instructors, these, these men and women. You get to learn, you get to help teach, you teach a little bit, you get some more experience, you get some confidence, and then you start to grow and then you watch these, these instructors, these these men and women who are really good, they grow and they become really good instructors because they weren't forced to become the lead instructor right off the bat, and so part of that culture that we've developed here is pretty awesome. Now, there are exceptions to that right. You know we always joke if we hire. If we hired a biochemist, that's the guy you want on the hazmat truck, right, because their background education, right. So we really looking at that piece.
Speaker 1:For me it was just this perfect storm of people investing in me and me getting to invest in other people and being given the opportunity, really graciously, to be able to teach. I can tell a quick little story. So I'm teaching a class no one from my organization is in this class I'm teaching. You know, I'm there as an instructor. It's members from probably 10 to 12 different fire departments and I'm looking around and I have this huge imposter syndrome in my mind. I'm like why am I the one up here like demonstrating this? And I remember looking back on that a few years ago and being like demonstrating this. And I remember looking back on that a few years ago and being like what a cool opportunity that should to grow. Right, but also the people who were investing in me gave me that opportunity and that really boosted my confidence. Right, it was scary to get up there and do that and to talk in front of people to teach. There's all sorts of prep that goes into that but then it was like that confidence started to grow and then it was like game on, let's, let's make this, let's give this opportunity to other people, let's grow this, let's, let's be a part of it. And that just keeps leading to more and more, um, more and more opportunities. I still to this day, like that's my, that's my favorite thing to do is to go help firefighters become better at their craft, and so the trt portion is just firefighters become better at their craft, and so the TRT portion is just everybody loves that Specifically too, like my world in there is not for us in the Valley. I know this is this.
Speaker 1:We're talking nationally a little bit here too. When we talk about technical rescue tech, what we're really talking about we have more than one discipline. It's not just rope, it's trench, it's confined space, it's structural shoring, it's air rescue, it's swift water rescue. So there's a lot of disciplines that we put on that. And then what you see, and what my personal philosophy is, is that you're going to gravitate to one of those Right, and you're probably going to find out that's the one you want to be an expert at, or at least try to be a really good tech at. And you know I love rope, all of that aspect. That's kind of just fun right.
Speaker 1:Interestingly enough, I'm not a climber. I'm never a recreational sport climber. I did a little bit of canyoneering, but this is really the rope rescue part is really like what I do, like that part is what I like for fun. And so you grow and that's really what I gravitated to. And then you also be happy, honest, with how much information, how many things can you really be that good at to feel comfortable enough to speaking in front of people? So you know, we got guys that I will call one of my best friends. He is, he's amazing, he's really good at structural shoring, like that is his jam, like those are the people you want those relationships with, because that's not the level I'm at yet, and so leaning into that, and so this system and kind of to kind of wrap up this little portion of what we're talking about here, is that I was just really fortunate and I think you can experience that that the other players, the other people that are help making this thing happen, um have created a really good training environment.
Speaker 1:Um, where we we're, we're forward thinking. I mean in the past five years, I mean we have made, we were, we were still using break rocks five years ago, which, if you're familiar, that's a, that's a pretty old piece of equipment. Um, it has some limitations, and so the industry, the rope rescue industry, has really taken off as far as, like technology is really changing rapidly. You look at devices like CMC is the clutch. You look at what Petzl is doing. You look at what some of these other companies are doing. Technology is rapid and our ability to access information has changed. And so now like man, so now like man, how do we? It's almost like keeping up a little bit. And so we've jumped light years ahead from where we were to using adjuncts and equipment in all aspects of technical rescue. That just makes us better, right, I've watched it, and certainly when you came into the system you came into the system we were still using break wraps, right, correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, sir them. You came in the system. We were still using breakbacks, right, correct?
Speaker 1:okay, yeah, we got issued break wraps right out of trt school and then we had them all the way up to, like you said, uh three four years ago, not even three, four years ago and now we're we're doing stuff that is awesome and a lot of credit goes to the, the program managers and the people and the cities that support that. Right, that is a very cost, heavy endeavor. Um, and that's something I'm learning now, like my role right now is is you know I laugh, I'm an inside captain, right, I work in the training division. It's more logistics and planning and stuff like that. But supporting that financially, supporting that with opportunities for your young members to go man, my young firefighters, they, I'm always getting hit up hey, we're sending more people to trt and when are we doing that?
Speaker 1:It's like that whole system is really based upon the fact that, uh, the culture around this training program has just been shaped really well and we've got it wrong and right. We've done things, we've had to go back on things and like, learn things, but there's just such this willingness to share information, to share ideas, to to nerd out and talk about it. Like we get in the weeds, like you get some of us together and it's like nerdville, but that little piece man, that's kind of indicative of what shaped the rest of my career outside of rope rescue and technical rescue too. So I've been monopolizing the conversation here.
Speaker 2:No, I mean that's honestly, that's what it's here for. My job, listen, my job as a host is just keep you talking, right, so you're doing such a good job talking. I don't have to do anything. But I mean I'm writing notes and everything as as we're talking here and it's funny, like just so the audience understands, especially the the system that, uh, we're in and then how class works or whatever. Like Billy hit the nail on the head like hazmat school is, like science class and then tier T is recess.
Speaker 2:You know it's like we get to be on the monkey bars and everything else. It's our favorite part of school and and all the other fun stuff. But, understanding that obviously we need to be able to be proficient in all the modalities of technical rescue, which includes, you know, things that we might not necessarily gravitate to as those type A personalities. But you had said something about you got onto the team very young, right, and I've kind of seen this when it comes down to not really the training aspect of it, but the knowledge base. So you have a very young, motivated individual like yourself. When you first got on, you said you had like two years on the job when you went to, went to school or whatever. Um, how do you feel about? Uh, you have a young, motivated guy that's he's getting his certs right or he's whatever it is. It doesn't even have to be in the tech rescue world, it's just he found his niche right or his passion in some sort of fire department, fire service modality, right, but he's young on the job.
Speaker 2:This is what I've been noticing is these guys will go to classes or we'll, we'll task them right. Hey, let's bring this class to our department or the Valley or the region, whatever the case might be. And they do all this research? Right, because they're a go-getter. They create a PowerPoint, it's? You know, we vet the class, so we go through and say, yes, this is the information that we want to present to this large group of members, right? And then day one, class one, they introduce themselves and they're like hey, firefighter Smith here, I know I only have two years on the job. Firefighter smith, here, I know I only have two years on the job. So, please, if you guys have influence or have you run the calls? Blah, blah. Basically, what they're doing is right from the get-go. As they introduce themselves, they're already making them decrediting themselves.
Speaker 1:right, because that that happens. Yeah, and I think a lot of that and I think you hit it right there, that decrediting portion. So here's, here's a misnomer and I think this is this is a. This, to me, is very personal. Time on the job, like years of service, does not equate to proficiency or professionalism right, you can have what?
Speaker 1:what's? What's the cliche? It's like you can have 10 years on a job or you can have one year repeated 10 times, right, we all know that. So for me, like I tell young instructors that, or our young ones, you're here for a reason, right, um, and part of that is you, you in this book. We're also we succession planning, um, every department I don't every anywhere I've ever been, that's always like we don't do enough. Succession plan, right, and it's hard because not everybody wants to do everything or they all want to do. Everybody wants to be an air rescue tech, right, everyone's to's flying a helicopter. It's like there's only this many stuff, right. And so we get these young instructors who want to, they don't want to, they don't want to come across as salty or arrogant, or why is the two year person teaching me? But at the same time, I like to encourage them in the preparation part that, like no, no, you have something valuable to offer. And part of your development is to be getting comfortable being in front of your peers, right, teaching recruit firefighters versus teaching legacy. Firefighters or legacy, not the word I was looking for. Senior, yeah, senior people People have been on the job for a while.
Speaker 1:Man, two different worlds. Right, because you know I don't know historically like some department to defend. There's a time when you've been, you know you've been on for a certain amount of time that you're more willing to share your opinions and not feel like you have. You have opinions right Because you've actually done some stuff. So there's young cats you know they get up there and they confident and you know we can, we can sense, sense that I try to address that really on the front side of that when we're, when we put them into places and and really one of the things that I try to intentionally do.
Speaker 1:I won't take a new person and I let them see the class taught a couple times and then give them small sections to teach, so they kind of build your confidence right with recruit firefighters. You don't take them out on day one and be like, all all right, we're going to do, you know, an accordion forward, we're going to do all this advanced postline management we're going to do. No, they're not going to perform well, you slowly build them, and so that same mindset, which is really simple, I just take to the instructor development. No matter how it is, and you want to, you got to have a certain amount of seasoning too. So going through that as a young firefighter, um, you know when our brothers and sisters get up there. I think our culture has to be receptive to that too. We can't eat our own right. You, they're there for a reason. So there's this trust that needs to be built with the people who are running the program, that we're not just putting people like, oh, we didn't have anybody, so we just chose that guy. It's like I like to introduce my instructors right. I always like to give them some clear, measurable like objectives and then to really help them along, and so I love watching.
Speaker 1:I have a firefighter who has, when I started teaching, they they wanted to help and so started bringing them along and giving them some things and, washed over like a two year period, then become I mean, I think they're a better rope set than I am Like they're one of. They're awesome Like this. This. This firefighter is really good at their craft and you watch that development and at the beginning you hit it right on the tail. They were like very kind of they didn't want to like say how long they'd been doing it, because they didn't think that and I'm like, no man, you guys are, you're doing it right. You, you're awesome at this, you have a talent for this, and now, like that's the person who I lean on all the time to put training on, because they've grown and so we we have to give them as administrators or as the leaders of a program.
Speaker 1:You got to build the right trajectory for your instructors. As a fire culture, though, we also have to under build a trust with those people that they're there for, and then they have to perform right. Let's just be honest you got to do. You got to do it. You don't do it perfectly, but you do need to. I, I, have a very high standard that I hold for myself. Um, I try not to project that onto other people because that's my personal standard, but I do have an expectation of excellence.
Speaker 1:Right, that what we do, because there is big consequences in our profession if you don't, if you get it wrong, right, correct. Yeah, there is a pressure that comes with this job. This job isn't for everybody. You have to, and so, in the training ground, when I talk about being a safe place to fail forward, right, learn from your mistakes around. When I talk about being a safe place to fail forward, right, learn from your mistakes. Also, though, that has ramifications, if we're, we're rappelling off you know a hundred foot cliff, right, we got to get it right. There's, there's not gravity does not know that that's training. Right, we always say that you know fire doesn't know it's training fire. Well, those are cliche, but they're so true. So you kind of you, you kind of you kind of take a layered approach to those young firefighters, um, to the men and women who step up to be leaders in the organization. I encourage you to keep doing it Right.
Speaker 1:Um, a quick little story. So I'm teaching I can't remember what class we're teaching we're teaching rescue, the rescue, right. So we have an evolution where, basically, how do we get our own people stuck and stuck and it, with the way we used to do, it was very complex and, uh, I didn't prepare for the demonstration like I wish I would. Let's just be honest, okay, and I I messed up in front of like 30 people, right, I totally, totally messed up, like just didn't go well, right, and so I got down and I just was like I kind of gave you this like apology.
Speaker 1:I was like, hey, I wasn't prepared, but then I was just I tried to be really vulnerable about it. I'm like that's a great, just a life lesson for us that a person who's taught this class, you know, 10 times already, didn't prepare for today like I should have, wasn't on point. Hey, that can happen to us, and so that's why we try to, that's why we try to work so hard in training, is that that doesn't happen. Game day, right, when we're a hundred foot, you know, down in a, in a Canyon, or we're doing a swift water rescue at one o'clock in the morning in a flash flood scenario, um, or where you know. You don't know when that light bar comes off, right you know on and sends us somewhere. So to do it here. So it's okay to mess up, but the goal is to reach that high standard.
Speaker 1:I hope that kind of makes sense, right? That's why I'm so passionate about training, because I want us to be perfect when our customer calls, right, that's what we're here for. You're not calling 911. You want professional.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, that's exactly what it is, and I've I've mentioned this before in previous episodes. It comes down to like when you, if you really want to know what the public expects from us, talk to any of them, right, and it's pretty much the same thing. It's like you know, they expect us to show up very quickly with good equipment, highly trained, resolve their problem right without getting nitty gritty of it, and then, if we're nice on top of it, it's, I would say, it's icing on the cake at the end, right, but they are willing, the public is willing to spend millions and millions of fucking dollars on us, right, because that's a service they expect. So shame on us as a American fire service, right, if we don't deliver what the public expects, because without them we don't exist, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it is, it is. It's an interesting. That's a good kind of like. You know the technical rescue piece and exactly one more instructor development there and all of that philosophy. We could go on for days. I could. I could talk like anybody who knows me and, you know, anybody who listens. Obviously I can. I, I'm a chatterbox, right, I just am Um, part of and I've just part of accepted like that's, that's who I am and that's what makes me that's, that's, that's what kind of it's a, it makes me good at what I do. It also, like you know, I can talk for hours.
Speaker 1:My family will be sometimes like, but we, we really do. If you, if you love this job and I think part of like why I'm gravitated to this job is that you meet, you know you meet men and women who have a why that is so that that I resonate with, of helping people and you, really, you are a servant to the public, right, we get that twisted when we become, um, let's just, let's call it what it is, when we become so self-centered that it's all about us, uh, and I don't mean that and like we're not there, we're not going, but when we're, our emphasis is only on us and we lose sight of what we're there to do, which is to serve. Um that that can get things a little out of balance sometimes and that happens and that happens and we have to force correct a little bit. But we're here. You know I've had to use the 911 system a couple of times and you know I've always been at work when my wife had to call because we've had an issue. Or you know, my son, you know, basically went into this respiratory arrest one time. When you pick up that phone, you want people who are going to come and help and solve your problem and I don't take that lightly.
Speaker 1:I don't take that oath lightly and I'm sorry I missed his name, I'm going to forget his name. He was a young individual who died in a fire a few years ago, a firefighter, and he has a viral clip on YouTube and essentially what he says is that when you raise your hand and take that oath, it's not a ceremonial high five, right, it's an oath. And you, I was raised, my dad was in the Marine Corps, he was a pilot in Vietnam. I was much. I came along a lot later in their life, but they have that mentality that when you spoke something or who you were like, it meant a lot. Right to say those things, to wear a uniform, to take an oath. My dad pinned my firefighter badge and like. For me there was this little bit of like, uh, and so that I carry with me to this day that that's a huge responsibility I take it very seriously.
Speaker 1:I take the reputation of my organization, of myself, of the american fire service. I have a lot of expectations and fire service, I have a lot of expectations and with that I also have a lot of grace, because we're human beings as well. Right, we're going to, we're we're, we're not superhuman.
Speaker 1:We're going to mess up, but the goal is is really where I've come to, where I'm at now is it's a mindset change. It's this kind of this, this relentless pursuit of excellence. Um, I talk about the relentless pursuit of being a professional, right, the relentless, it's not going to stop, from the day you start your job to the day you retire. I want to be a lifelong learner, right, and that is that mentality has really helped me out personally. And then you that, when you see that in other people, right, when you see the 25 year plus, you know captain or firefighter who is continually learning, right, we had a, a captain who worked for us did well, he's on the job longer and I've been alive. Let's put it that way, right wow, okay yeah you, you would.
Speaker 1:You catch it like. He came on the job in 1981, right, just retired a few years ago, jesus, that was a year I was born.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly so. Honestly, man, I would see him studying our SOPs. We call them Boeing 2 here. Right, he would be in the book. The guy's run more fires than I have total calls probably.
Speaker 1:And he was a lifelong learner and that was super impressionable on me. I was like, wow, what excuse do I have, with five and 15, 20 years in a job, to not carry that same mindset over and continue? You can always learn something. We'll see this in fire department training, not just specifically tech rescue training. And I don't want to go to training, I don't want to do this, this is going to be crappy. And then, if you have good training, inevitably somebody will be like man, I didn't want to come today, but man, I really got something out of it right. And so, as a leader in my organization, I take a lot of pride in making sure that we're putting out a good product for our members, that it's not wasting their time. You know, like that, that that's.
Speaker 1:My responsibility is to make sure that we show up prepared, professional, researched. You know we just don't show up and wing it and just tell war stories, you know, and sometimes we're doing like we were going through a block. We just got finished with it. Forcible entry and really kind of back to the basics of conventional force of entry.
Speaker 1:We bought some forceful entry doors for a bunch of our stations, trained up some trainers, gave the crew some in service, and you go out there and we talk a lot about, about. Hey listen, some of this stuff you may have touched a long time ago. This may be new information, but we want to give you an opportunity to have some sets and reps and there's not a big fancy PowerPoint I'm not good at PowerPoint, I don't love PowerPoints but here's some back information, some resources, how we've set this up where you can access that information and let's just go get and inevitably like it's awesome when now, when I go by the stations, I see those doors. They were nice and shiny a few months ago and now they're all beat up right.
Speaker 2:You know they're out there.
Speaker 1:You know they're out there. You know we're getting requests. Hey, we need more dials, we need more Fs. And it's like, yes, that for me is there's so much personal satisfaction for me, because I'm like, hey, man, we're making, we're giving the opportunity for our people to get better. And it's not me standing up there teaching, it's them and you're watching them.
Speaker 1:A guy and gal who were like maybe they were new to forceful entry, they didn't get an excellent class, they didn't learn from Captain Colson, right, or they just haven't. And now they're starting to get it and they're watching videos, or they're and they're. And now they're doing one man unconventional. And you're like, oh, that's awesome, that's awesome, right, so that that that's why we do it, that's why I do it. You know that's, it's a, it's a it just want to be around them, I want to learn from them, I want to grow, and then I want to take that and create that mindset for others. Right, you pass that one.
Speaker 1:You know you don't own the fire department. Right, you basically rent it. You know what I mean. Like we're not going to be here. I'm not going to be here forever. I have aspirations to retire someday. Right, Like we all do. Right, I'm going to be, I got a long time to go, I got a little kid, but you kind of like, you inherit this precious reputation and just this, this gravity of the job, and you want to make it better, you want to pour into your people and then at a certain point you want to pass that on to the next person.
Speaker 1:And so training the training environment and training culture, tech, rescue, forceful entry, whatever it is fire behavior, to watch organizations, regions, departments, watch Holt to grow and change, that's so awesome. Like going to got to go to fdic a couple years ago, um, my first time at that event. If you've never been, if you've been, you know, if you haven't been, you're like, okay, what am I? You know what am I walking into here? But it was just awesome to to see so much diversity in the american fire service as far as like types of departments and call volume, building, type, and then how I was in a class that had guys from guys and gals from Boise or the Boise Costa I think that's how to pronounce it Atlanta. You know obviously us from the region here. There was all over.
Speaker 1:And so then we start talking and we're talking to the Boise firefighters and they use volume two, a version of volume two. They basically started, and so you're having these conversations about how that plays out in a city that doesn't have the same setup as ours, right, right, and you're going Whoa, we're, we're a lot alike, and so I get a lot of motivation and passion about that because you're learning from them. You know, um, you you hear instructors from different parts of the country and you see the challenges that they're facing, right, and you learn from it. And then you take some of the things that we're doing and you go, hey, we're doing this really well, but we can always be better. Right, you can always be better at our craft. And that goes back to the bigger point here, which is our mindset. We want lifelong learners. I want lifelong learners. I don't want I.
Speaker 1:I feel very comfortable that I could go out and perform a skill right now. There's a bunch of them that I feel good at, but I was a recruit training officer for eight months. Went, came out of that, went into the training division. My sets and reps are low on things. So if my mindset is not good, I teach this, I'm good at it, and I don't go out and practice. Well, shame on me, right? That's a bad. I still need to make my CEs, I still need to do the sets and reps to set that example, and because you, you can forget things right, like I mean everything's perishable and lately, like you had mentioned before, things are especially in the fire service.
Speaker 2:recently a lot of things are changing fire tactics to tech risk I mean you, medical, you name it like the the world, our world is vastly different from just five years ago.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's for us, that's huge yeah, when I was introduced to uh ul underwriting laboratories right a few years ago, I will tell people, um, I learned a bunch of stuff about like I was just just kind of like I had confirmation. We get that confirmation bias like every fire you go on eventually goes out Right. And I love the quote that says don't, don't mistake a good outcome for a good process, right.
Speaker 2:So sometimes I think sometimes we get lucky.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we get lucky. Did we have the right hose line and and size for that fire? Or was the fire just in decay and we were? You know what I mean. Like you, you get those things. Well, when I was introduced to ul and a lot of that stuff and it was like oh man, I don't know anything, right, like you get that feeling like I'm like I have a little bit of experience. I'm not going to say that I don't. I feel like my opinions were correct. I don't think anybody intentionally holds on to an incorrect opinion. But you're going oh man, I got a lot to learn here. And then you start meeting people who are like I experienced the same thing. I experienced the same thing right Five years ago.
Speaker 1:If you would have asked me about shoulder load pose deployment, I would have been like I wouldn't have an opinion really, but I would have been like not even on my radar, right. Well, you get exposed to something You're like wait, this is. You know, there's 10 ways to deploy a shoulder. We run what we call modified Minuteman and our. But there's 10 ways to deploy that versus the one way we were doing before with our, with our previous hose load, which was effective, but we were like oh man, we can be better, we can be more efficient.
Speaker 2:That's like the biggest thing. That and that's a keyword, and I'm glad we're using it now because it's like, hey, we're not saying that what we've done the last 20 years is wrong. It's not wrong, right, but hey, this is a more efficient way. Train on it, see, if you like it. You can also use this on top of what you've learned 20 years ago. Just increase that knowledge base, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think we all. I was listening to a podcast with Chris Williams and Tim Ferriss and I don't I'm not I listen to podcasts. I mean I'm, you know I like to read and listen to stuff, but I don't do it all the time anymore because I'm just super busy in this stage in life you know young kids and kids in high school and my job but I, for some reason, somebody sent me this and they have this little chat and I. It was so impactful and Tim Ferriss talks about the difference between being effective and being efficient and he what his kind of theory is and I kind of agree with him is that we can be efficient and at doing and it's really, the process is really crappy. We're efficiently doing something, but it's not, it's not the best, right, we just have become good at doing it that way versus being effective, right. And the goal should be to be effective, because that means we're going to be efficient at a better process. And I'm butchering a little bit what they said, but the idea is you know we're efficient at pulling this, this hose load or this. You know we used to use a dedicated main, dedicated belay rope rescue system. Right, we've gone to twin tension system, I used a certain style of hose load. Now we're using this, we've become more effective and we've developed good processes to be efficient. In that, um, in that that new way to do things. So, when we're managing change which require services service is constantly changing has been forever right you really start to understand that, oh, I do have to be a lifelong learner. This is because if you want to be the best for the people that we're serving, then you need to, you've got to be open to that, because we're always going to be changing.
Speaker 1:I'm not a paramedic. That's probably the one thing in my career that I, if I look back, I wish I would have done when I was younger. And then life happens and now I'm here at the. You know this part of my career and it's probably not something I'm going to go do, but I've used to run the college. You know we were fortunate. We run a lot're watching. You know when, uh, we change, you have to continue to grow and evolve and adapt.
Speaker 1:I mean, I came on the fire service. Um, I went, 9-11 happened when I was in a firefighter one and two program at the college, right? So, um, how much has the american fire service changed from 9-11. Now obviously we in the 90s and 80s we started doing firebase dms, we 9-11 happens. And then look at the homeland defense, the all the things that came after post 9-11 and american fire service.
Speaker 1:Well, I think we're kind of post post that, because look how much we're changing now, like you've got huge organizations taking on behavioral health systems and calls right when the fire service is constantly evolving and expanding and it doesn't just narrowly affect fire ground operations, it affects EMS, it affects customer service calls, that is, a call volume in service time, different alternative response methods. You know you're seeing medical response, you're seeing a lot of change and it's hard sometimes to manage all that because you've learned it one way and now it seems to almost be oh. And then now you can hop on the internet, instagram, whatever social media platform you use, and you can find your niche out there of people who are posting new ways to do things, they're learning, they're sharing their information. So it's a really. Actually I think it's an awesome time to be in the fire service, because we're watching this rapid evolution of our department, right?
Speaker 1:I mean, when I came on, when I went to technical rescue school, there was probably I would say there was under 10 cities who ran TRT programs. Almost every city I can think of now has a tech rescue program or is looking at opening one. Right, you know it used to be. One city would have hazmat, one would have TRT. And because of the way we work here, you know we have that suit, the automatic aid system, and now every city is putting up you know hazmat teams, trt teams, their specialty ladder. You know hazmat teams, prp teams, their specialty ladder. You know equipment. We're watching.
Speaker 1:We're watching this thing grow and um and at the same time we're getting younger right. Uh, you know, down at the academy, you know you're getting 18, 19 year old young men and women who are coming in the fire service and we're the fire department here. But specifically we're in a very grow phase right now. So a lot of cities are hiring, they're opening up new stations. The valley is growing tremendously, um, so our firefighters are getting younger right and they're getting they're, they're moving into positions of responsibility quicker because of that, and so there's this gap, and this is where my passion right now lies, and I think we thought we're talking about training culture. Is that really focusing on developing a healthy training culture in our organizations, both locally and nationally, because it's it's super important that fires, you know we don't go on.
Speaker 1:A lot of fire calls, you know, are going down in some regards. I still think they're more, I think they're more dangerous now, but certainly the call volume is expanding in all sorts of areas. So how do we, how we bridge that gap Right? You've got young, young firefighters promoting the driver operator. You've got young firefighters who are promoting to captain um at an accelerated pace, probably because of the need, and I don't necessarily think that's bad, but I think we do have to come in and make sure that our training cultures and our training programs are spot on.
Speaker 1:That's, that's where we're at. You know, you're losing the 32 year. Firefighters are retiring right and then or they're promoting, like we, uh, we have a big kind of initiative, or at least in our, in my division, where I'm at. We don't want any single points of failure when it comes to building training systems right. Meaning that information that I have, that knowledge that I have gained, it doesn't need, it can't just live in my head. Does that make sense? It can't just live in my, my folder on my desktop, where all the, all the powerpoints and all the resources that I've accumulated over 20 years in the fire service. It has got to be you got to share it.
Speaker 1:You got to share it and you've got to have a system that when I move on, um, you know, like I am in a, I'm working out of class right now. So for us, not my rank is captain, but I'm working as a division chief, essentially in training. Um, like I, I see a different perspective and it's like okay, how do I make sure that when I'm not running the technical rescue program, that the things we've built will carry on because you're going to promote, you're going to people are going to move, like it's okay. I think this is super important to people to say to them it's okay. I think this is super important for people to say to them it's okay.
Speaker 1:If you move on from something that you, you kind of run its course, man, I was a, you were a technical rescue instructor, and then all of a sudden, life happens and you become you really want to get into EMS training and you kind of gravitate. That way, it's okay to say, hey, I'm going to say no to this because I'm saying yes to this, but those systems and those things that you've built, we really are trying to make sure that they live on and that they're able to be shared, they're able to be used and they're able to grow, Like, hey, we don't do that anymore because we're better now, and so that information can kind of go away, and that's okay, right, that's part of what I mean when I say no single points of failure. That's okay, right, that's part of what I mean when I say no single points of failure.
Speaker 1:If I were, to win the lottery tomorrow, right, and be like all right, I'm a professional surfer now in our home right, and I'm leaving the fire service. I want the things that I've contributed to, I want to help contribute to those systems that will be here and able to launch our people even farther. Right, there's that saying. It's pretty common. Like we stand on this, you know the shoulders, the giants who are before us, I learned from from some amazing, awesome instructors, but they didn't have the the rope quality that we have now. They didn't, certainly didn't have the adjunct. You know, they didn't have rescue senders and they didn't have all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, that doesn't mean that they were not good at what they did. They were amazing at what they did. But they created systems and a mindset so the next generation could pick it up and take it forward. Right, and so then we start. Look at the evolution of the halogen bar, right, how many different of those are out there right now that you're like every day, somebody, I will see a new, improved version? Right, you're like we're going to 20 inch ads.
Speaker 1:Now what is going on? What are we doing? You know, but it's like there's there, is there is there's um. I think when you get into this arena and and I know, I've seen, I've seen experiences with you know, you know, seeing you instruct, is that you can you get, you got to learn how to be good with the tools that you have. But you're like, hey man, what if we could could do it better? Right, what if we could create a? How many different like? I went down a rabbit hole with a fellow RTO of mine. I was arrogant to the amount of different fire actors that are out there. I mean, you're using whatever and then you start using different and you're like, ooh, I like this one. About this one? I like what we're seeing is just firefighters trying to make the job better. Right, and yes, some of those companies make money absolutely good for them. They should like if you invent something, I'm I, I'm all about it, right, um, but it's like they're trying to make it better and if that's the motivation, if that's the people around and sign me up, like that's where I want to be.
Speaker 1:I may not agree. Agree with everybody. I certainly don't like. I'm an opinion. You have opinions about the fire service, right, go to you. Um, I don't agree with some things, but I'm open to listening to that point of view and to have a conversation that leads to growth, not a conversation that just leads to confirming my own ideas, right? Um, I've not always done this well, that's just. I'll be really vulnerable here. Um, listening to understand versus listening and waiting for your turn to talk, right? That's two different things. And so, as I've gotten older, um, as I've become more mature, as I've had really good mentors, listening to points of view and being able to not just write that point of view off is, like you may not agree at the end of the day, right Like what you can you, I mean.
Speaker 1:What do you? How many years are you total in the fire service now?
Speaker 2:Uh, 18 now.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you've probably heard, we don't talk about all of us, right? We don't talk about religion. We don't talk about politics. We don't have an XYZ fire station, right? Well, the world has changed, right, and you need to be able to have conversations with people that you may not agree with and still be family at the end of the day. Right, that is a skill, and so we get real opinionated about this is the way it has to be, and maybe for your organization, maybe where you're at, but listening to other people and then being able to critically think about what they're saying, right, that is, in this rapid evolution of change in the fire service, that is a skill that we need to be good at. Right, and that just takes practice. Right, I disagree with you.
Speaker 1:And then, at the end of the day, like I have wanted to go a certain direction with training, right, and we have a very strong labor management process in our organization about input, and it's important to me to get people the opposing views in there so that we're challenging the plan a little bit.
Speaker 1:Right, if you get everybody in one room who agrees specifically that this is the way it has to be done, you're going to, you probably will miss something that has some downstream consequences. So that piece right there for me has been probably the most. The most change that I've experienced for me personally in the training environment has been that and it's been like the past three years that that process for me really being focused on that conversation. Because, you see it out, there we have, we have people I think you and I were talking we have people who are on one end of the spectrum, right Of basically we gotta be, we can't, we're. They're risk adverse, they're not managing risk, they're completely risk adverse. And then you have people who are acting reckless, right, and they're doing reckless things and you're like you're missing this huge piece in the middle that by living on the edges or being on the polarized end of the fire service, we're not, we're, we're not serving our, our brothers and sisters by living on those extremes. We're not.
Speaker 2:No, you're right and to to stop you real quick, because you're man, you're, you're not joking man. You go from topic to topic to topics but just to drive home.
Speaker 2:No, you're good because I I do not want to interrupt you, but I just want to drive home a couple points before I lose track of them here. Like, so, basically what Billy's saying right is and correct me if I'm misunderstanding this but to be a great fireman and I say great, not good, right, because we should be striving to be great right you have to have to get out of your fire department. The infancy stages of that is doing something like what we're doing right now listen to a podcast, that's like step one, right. Then internet stuff right, obviously, university youtube. There's a wealth of information, right, good and bad, right, um, but then reading books, articles, and then, like, the topping to that is to actually leave the region that you work in and take classes in and get some face time and everything else. So, like that's he's.
Speaker 2:Everyone says the words like, hey, we're going to leave the department better than we found it, right, but you just spelled it out. Like that's, that's what we're talking about when we say those catch words or slogans right Is getting out of that comfort zone. And then, like you said, being vulnerable and saying, hey, I don't know everything right, and I can learn something from this guy, even if I don't necessarily agree with, say, his training modalities or, for example, that fire department functions so much different than ours it would never work in our system, or whatever the case might be. It's like, well, I bet you a portion of that might Like if you keep your mind open. And then one other thing too, you you had mentioned was when we were talking about the tools and everything else, like you were. You said you were biased on axes, right, and it's funny because I believe and again my personal opinion right that to be, you know, part of that becoming a great fireman, right, and a master of this craft is you should own some of your own tools, and that could be stuff that just fits in your pocket. That's super small. It could be something like an ax or a Halligan or a pike pole or whatever. Whatever it is, but the trick is is it's that tool specific for you. Whoever that fireman is right Because of this helps you during a certain operation or for your position and your, your department and the way that you operate on a fire ground or medical call, or whatever it might be, this tool makes you the most efficient.
Speaker 2:And for the naysayers, when it comes down to like hey, I would never buy my own tool because the, the department supplies me with every tool I need, right? Um, I always refer back to good mechanics, right? Hey, a snap everyone knows what a snap on truck is, right? Like, snap on would not fucking exist at all If the mechanics just use shop tools. Right, but that's not how it works, right?
Speaker 2:They pick tools that make their life easier and, more, more importantly, more efficient. So for them, it's a monetary thing, right. The quicker I get this job done, the more money I get paid, not necessarily the more money they get paid the same amount of money but the less time they spend on that job, right? So for us, it's not a monetary thing, right, it's a service thing. It's what the public expects. So, hey, I want to perform the best service. So for me, as firefighter, smith or whatever, this is a tool I prefer, and it doesn't matter if your, your captain, your lieutenant, your senior fireman or whatever says well, I don't like that tool. Well, it's you, you don't have to use that tool. This, this tool is for me, you know. So I just kind of want to hit on a couple things before because, like I said, you're dropping so much knowledge right now, brother, so I appreciate it well, I'm just I just wanted an opportunity to speak.
Speaker 1:No, no, you're great. No, I think that that's an interesting concept. Like, um, that's something that's kind of uh, like I don't actually really have an opinion, I haven't really thought about like the own tool conversation too much. Um, I will take it to this from where I live, like, so I have a note on my phone, um, and basically I call it. It's basically like the down and dirty of like what I my personal expectation as a company officer that my folks are able to do on the truck, right. So we talk about managing expectations, right.
Speaker 1:Big catchy words I'm using a lot of. You know that, but what that really means is this is what I need you as to be. This is my kind of like baseline of where we're at and it's little things like. It's like I want you to know, um, how to read hinges when force is doing forceful entry. I want you to know how to do these three deployments of the modified minute man, because that's the task level skill that I got, the tactic or task level skill that I wanted to deploy based upon where I got here, and I'll talk about why we're there and we go out and train all that, all that stuff.
Speaker 1:But what I created a note, because part of that is like hey, here's my recommendations of things I think you should have in your turnout, right, I think you need a piece of webbing, I think you need something to cut. You know, if you get entangled, you need something to cut. I think you should have a good flashlight. You know, like I don't care if it's a helmet, mace or you're putting one, I don't wear a helmet by light on my helmet it's actually things on my pack or my jackets where I put it and I and I got to that specific little thing because of the way our helmet design is and I like, when I was talking to people on the fireground, I would turn and that light would shine right into their eyes. Right, I'm not very tall, right, and so like, uh, you know average height, you know a human being, and when you're talking to somebody and you've all been in that environment where it's like, all of a sudden you're blinded, right, well, that also has. Yeah, that has for me. That's just what I got there.
Speaker 1:Now there's some disadvantages. Those helmet flights are really, really powerful and they can help you see, to make you more effective on the fire ground. So there's this balance. So I actually carry this and I've gone back and we all listen, anybody into the job has always changed their kit, right. Um, the things I carry on my harness, uh, the way I set my stuff up it's I'm always kind of growing and evolving and changing, adding, deleting, based upon rope. But you hit it on the head is that if you meet somebody who has that mindset, chances are pretty good that they're going to be they're going to be probably pretty good firefighters, right, they're probably at least going to be on the journey because they're thinking more outside of them. Just basics, right. Like how many times do we hear minimum company standards are just minimum right those are the and and for me, I want to hold.
Speaker 1:I want to hold the bar high, right? I want the standard to be up, way up here. And minimum doesn't mean bad, right? I think we get that twisted a little bit Sometimes. We're like, oh, if they just did minimum, it's bad, it's like no, that's standard.
Speaker 1:Whatever it is we do in our organization, we do minimum company standards for technical rescue, right. So you get evaluated on some skillset twice a year. It's not punitive, it's not. I'm not here to like you're not good at your job. That's not at all what it is.
Speaker 1:It's like, hey, these are things that culturally and organizationally say are really important. We want to make sure that we're proficient at them, consistently, year after year after year. And what we'll notice is hey, if we see, let's just say, a group, we see people like not hitting the mark on a similar thing, when we do it, we ask the question where are we failing them? Right, we don't. I don't look at them and be like, oh man, he's got no, no, no, I go Okay, are we providing the right training for them? Did I miss something as a leader that they need Right? And it could be no the answer. Could be no. The answer could be hey, we didn't touch that topic all year in our CE block and we just didn't see that, we didn't see it right, we didn't we plan far in advance. But maybe we need to go back and talk about, you know, litter operations. Or we need to hit a fourth voluntary block. Or, hey, we need to get back to portable, you know doing portable monitor training or a fire ground survival or name one of the million things we do in the fire service. Right, you? The training aspect and being able to measure against the standard also allows you to go back and evaluate where your training program is at.
Speaker 1:And when I say training program, I don't, I personally don't think this is totally just my kind of like shaping opinion is that every high functioning unit in the fire service so engine ladder, rescue battalion, whatever, like whatever, how you're shaped up right, that's the training division. You're, you're your own. You need to be out. I shouldn't have to tell you that you need to go out and walk your first. Do that. You need to go. Practice stretching hose lines, that, that you should know that and do that. Right, my responsibility is to give you the resources and and carve out a space and give you ideas and help you and point you in a direction and get you to subject matter experts, but you need to also be self-motivated to go do that stuff, right?
Speaker 1:So you look at this and you go how do I change my culture? Well, it's really easy, it's not. It's not changing cultures hard, right, but one of the things to influence your culture is you change that mindset. You empower your company officers to, um, like one thing that I it wasn't on my radar and I had several company officers come to me and say, hey, when information comes out, everybody is getting the information at the same time. When information comes out, everybody is getting the information at the same time. And would it be possible for us for the training, like whatever we're working on, that's great. This is going to be at a company level. Can we get that information so we can prepare, so we can help our people better? Right, makes sense, right, yeah absolutely Makes sense.
Speaker 1:I'm like, dude, I didn't. I was telling him, I was like I would never have thought of that, and I'm like, yeah, absolutely. So we sat down. We came up with a way of like hey, when training block is coming up, for we're getting ready to do some modern fire behavior training, right, we give them a heads up. Hey, this is where we're drawing our curriculum from, and it's not that the firefighter doesn't deserve that equipment, but we're asking our leaders to train them on it. We need to give them the training too. We need to give them downstream and we're hey, all of my resources, they live, they can go on to our training platform and they can find where we sourced all our material. That's super important for me, because I don't want them to think that we just made it in a vacuum and we miss the mark.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, we don't get it right all the time, but we strive to make sure that, like, hey, six months from now, you can go back at the company office and be like hey, let's revisit forcible entry, conventional low visibility training, right, and we'll kind of describe it that way so they can find it, and be like hey, let's review this video that was sent out by the training division and then let's go actually just walk through and talk about some doors in our first year, right? That's what I'm trying to get to is empowering our leaders, whether it's a backseat firefighter for 25 years or it's a seven-year company officer or a 35-year battalion chief, I'm really passionate about helping them be their own training division, right, because then they have ownership in it. You validate their experience and their knowledge as well. Everybody. I mean, if I have a question about ems, right, I'm gonna seek out the people who I know are professionals at their craft, and it validates to me when they, when they are, when they can speak eloquently about it, or they have knowledge about it or they can. That is what. And so you replicate that throughout your fire department. You empower your two-year firefighter to help teach classes, right?
Speaker 1:Um, so, on my on, when I'm right now I'm not on a truck, I'm in an office, but when I'm on my own truck, I really like hey, what do you want to? What are you passionate about? Like, like, when we get probationary firefighters through, hey, what's something you felt very confident about coming out of the academy and what? What's something you feel like you need some work on? Right, and you give them a space to listen to them so that you know they may need work on. Name a subject. Right, they want to do big water revolutions because they didn't get a lot of it at the academy. And they're like, hey, I'm kind of confused on how we deploy the, you know, the blitz monitor or whatever it is, whatever, whatever appliance you're using, well, if you're not paying attention, you're not listening, you're not asking those questions, and then you, you can't find the resources. You're way less likely to go out and actually train with that person. So if we can bridge that gap, we create a culture where we're listening to our people, we're responding appropriately, and sometimes the response is yes, but right, we can't do that right now. Like I can't go force the doors on new warehouse that was built around the corner, but I can get us some out of service time at the Academy to go down and force doors.
Speaker 1:I'll call the training division, we'll see where the calendar is. Well, you, you kind of remove those barriers for folks, um, and you kind of help them, like along. That's so satisfying, bro, that is so awesome to watch. I love when I get a phone call or an email that says hey, do you have any resources on uh, like any slides that we can use for we're practicing on scene reports and follow-ups? Can you have anything? And we're like, yep, hey, by the way, we just loaded that into our training platform. You can go get all those pictures. If you need more, call me. Hey, if you want me to bring the fire sim computer down, drop it off at your station. I'll have the training captain drop it off. I'll have one of the light duty. You know we'll get it to you, um, or it's booked right now. You want to get over here? That whole. That's how you, that's for me. That's how I mean maybe I'll learn some more. I'm not. I definitely learned some more empowering and building resources.
Speaker 1:And we went to uh. I was encouraged to go take uh an nfka 1403 class, which is the live burn class. He teaches you how to put on a live burn time outfire behavior. So we went to uh, an organization in northern arizona. Um hosted the class, uh, myself and the training captain, our division, we got sent to that class and so nobody from the valley, right? So it's not, it's not region specific.
Speaker 1:The instructors came out. They were um. They were from a national teaching organization, um, the usfsi, which is I think I said that now, right, it's the teaching arm of ul. Oh, my goodness man. So this instructor came in and this class about building burn plans. Okay, so it's a little, can be a little. I thought it was gonna be a little dry, dude, it was some of the best training I've ever been to because we had to do it. We had to look at case studies from Baltimore and all over, and then at the end of class, he gives us this, basically sends us a link to a Dropbox folder that has a pile of best practices that he's accumulated after teaching nationally.
Speaker 1:Right, so you've got burn plans from organizations all over the country. You have good things that they go. Hey, these are things that seem that may help you or may not. I was like this is awesome, right, this is what I'm trying. I saw an example of what we're trying to get to, which is, hey, we're not telling you you have to do it this way, but this is the best we've seen over X amount of time. The data backs it up, the science backs it up, the practicality of it backs it up. We've seen departments use this successfully. So here's a resource. Well, if we can do that every layer of the fire service, which takes a lot of effort how much better are we going to be right?
Speaker 2:So much better.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, and that's where I really grown like. That all started for me in the tech world, right, tech rescue world. And I'm trying to implement some of this stuff in the tech rescue world, at least within my sphere of influence. We have a video library, and it's not that you have to, it's not that we're saying that's the only way to do something, but we have decided locally, through lots of testing and training, that, hey, this is what the best practice for us is, right, and so that our members I'll get it once in a while, I'll get a text hey, where's that video library located? Again, hey, it's right here. Cool, I'll send you the link, right.
Speaker 1:That kind of attitude and mentality with 22 years on the job now, almost 22 years on the job, and that's that excited. Obviously you can tell I'm excited and passionate about it. But what it does it comes back to that, all the way back to that 21 year old firefighter, to a 20 year old firefighter who started in the fire service, who got an opportunity, and then, like that little, that little seed of like passion grew bigger and bigger and it grew into something and now you're just trying to share it, you're're trying to be like, hey, I want to help you be better. I want to. That is my why.
Speaker 1:You know, I've been asked a couple of times like, hey, what's your goal? What do you want to do in the fire service? Like, it's a really interesting thing to analyze yourself. You're 18 years, right? Well, when you're in this 18, 20, this little time frame of American engineering and fire service, it's good to just shut down and be honest with yourself about hey, what do I really want to do?
Speaker 1:Right, and be honest about you know not, and I hear all the time, I will never be. I never want to be F, right, I never want to be an engineer. I never want to be a captain. I want to be the time chief. I never want to be a training person. I don't know if I want, okay, but that might change, you know. And then when you start to ask those questions, I think it breathes a little life back into your. How many, how many people have you met that? Maybe they were a little complacent, maybe they were a little like the job had kind of on them for a while. They're just, they're not on a trajectory that you notice, and then something ignites a passion in them and what happens to them.
Speaker 1:They like get reinvigorated Like you know, yeah, there was a trend for a while where there was really senior captains going down to the academy as recruit training officers and when you talk to those folks who have 25 plus years on the job, man, they were like being around recruits, just like. It was like I got a second lease on my career, right. You know, like I got to, like it fired you up because you're on these passionate, motivated people. That's so awesome. That is because of all the hard part of the job. That is something that brings some joy to the job, you know.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, and that's. That's all part of that giving back, you know, and then it's. I've seen it with our department too, even at a lower level than RTO, like a firefighter mentor being a backstep guy. That's been a backstep guy for 25, 30 years, going down to the Academy and literally going back to the field, going I fucking love this job again. You know, like he was just so burnt out and then just seeing this young, positive influence of these young people coming in and then it reminds you know, you start remembering like hey, why did I get into the job back in the day or whatever? And you know it's.
Speaker 2:So I you mentioned safety, you mentioned the safety swing a little bit. So I just want to touch on that without going like super deep dive, but I really want to go on a deep dive on the topic after it. So just real quick. So the the safety swing, we've, we've all seen it, so it's, it's and we talked off the show a little bit about it. So I mean it's literally the pendulum is almost in one direction or the other. Where it is, we have either administration or what. You know who, who knows who's to blame in that certain department. But you got to point where they're saying firemen come first, above everybody, which, in my opinion is, is false, right as soon as we put ourselves in front of the public.
Speaker 2:Uh, that's not what this profession is about, and again, this is my, my personal opinion Plus the quote unquote safer that we make the fire ground actually becomes more dangerous so longer it takes us to apply water because of, uh, uh, different SOPs or SOGs or whatever the case might be. A two in, two out I mean, I mean name, whatever is slowing you down on the fire ground in the department you work for right, and then you have the exact opposite where it's like. Then you have the culture where it's like hey, like we're, we're jokingly saying like hey, let's, let's douse each other with gasoline prior to entering, right, this is gonna be a blast, right? So you have, you have both sides right there, and obviously you had mentioned it already today, um, earlier in the podcast like we need to settle to the middle. So I I'd like you to talk a little bit about that, but then really segue from that middle section to what we always consider, the why.
Speaker 2:But the why that I want to talk to you about today is the and we're doing much better job at it recently in the last couple of years, when we're doing training for either recruits or that 25, 30-year member of not only are we trying to teach you something that might be new, might be a refresher, whatever the case might be, we'll just say another slide for the slideshow, right?
Speaker 2:Hey, you could use this if needed in the correct situation. But the why we're explaining to them, hey, this is why we're teaching this training technique, this is why we believe that this modality or this technique will be better than what you previously learned. In this scenario, like, just explain. And I think that really gives a buy-in and that also snuffs those guys out that say, hey, uh, I'm not really paying attention because we've always done it a certain way and I'm going to continue doing it that way. And I believe when we explain the why properly, it opens us up to success, for to be able to get those members to really buy in. But so I know those are two questions. So I really want to talk to you about that safety swing and then really transition to the why and how. That's really positively in infecting our new members and even our senior members right now. So it's, it's a good thing, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think I look at it a couple of different ways. Well, it's kind of the same same same venue, but a couple of different lanes in there. The first is this um, risk management versus risk avoidance. So we have to manage risk. Um that, so we have to manage risk.
Speaker 1:Um, I believe is unacceptable for us to recklessly kill or injure a firefighter on the fire ground because we were acting inappropriately, like we were freelancing. We were right. We don't historically injure or kill firefighters here in the Valley because I believe we have a strong, intimate command system and we have strong um, we have strong influences on doing the job in a best practice type of manner. Right now it's there's variances to that because of building construction. First, due proximity to resources, right, you can go. There's layers to this, right, we have to be nuanced here. This is a very nuanced conversation, so nuanced conversations can be can be misinterpreted, and so I kind of want to be clear, like hey, hey, there's a lot of factors. So for our listeners out there it's like hey, man, I get it right, you're going to have some opinions, right, I don't know where you work, right. So there's two parts to that the risk management piece you have to manage risk, you have to. It's unacceptable to jump to a tactic or a practice that is just blatantly reckless, right, and that mentality. So when you talk about a certain procedure and you are not learning how to do it efficiently and with a measure of hey, how do I do this? In a way Because you're a valuable resource. The public invests a ton of money into the firefighters that they hire and the equipment they use, and the expectation is that you don't go out and just blatantly like disregard that resource, right. Like we talk about driving, it's huge, right, how we drive our fire apparatus following code three driving rules. Right, there's things we can and can't control, like it's inappropriate to drive a fire truck outside the bounds of code three driving rules because of the risk that you're taking on. And versus, if you hit and kill somebody while driving a fire truck and you don't get to that drowning or that fire you have, you have amplified the problem because you were, you were, you were, you were acting recklessly, right. So what I think sometimes happens is that we become get to, you can be on the extreme of anything. The safety culture, at least the one that I'm exposed to for me, how I want to, how I like to describe it.
Speaker 1:You need to be a smart thinking firefighter. You need to be physically and emotionally fit right and you need to be properly trained to be able to do your job. If we, if we give our people the tools and the processes and we say as an organization, hey, I'm going to make, I want you to be fitness is super important right, like, doing your job. This is a physically demanding job. You have to be able to do it physically If you want to be able to work and rescue someone out of a fire. You got to physically fit right. You just have to be right. There's a level of expectation there. You have to be able to think you got to be able to make good decisions Like I'm going to employ this tactic or this tactic, or we're going to do this or this based upon what I'm facing. Like it's not a I have some.
Speaker 1:You know, everybody says always or never. Like we don't say those things. Well, there's some things that we always do right. Like you always have your like always be thinking. Like don't get so narrow-minded. And you got to see the bigger picture right. That's what experience does for you, gives you picture If you, if those things get out of balance, right. And then we just totally become risk adverse. That's problematic, right, because we're not going to be effective right now. There are risks that we have to completely like.
Speaker 1:You know, like I have a big thing. I'm a seatbelt guy man, like, wear your seatbelt Right. And I haven't always done that to perfection, and it almost like. But I'm big, like, wear your seatbelt, just wear your seatbelt Right. Like I took a class on a guy who he has a program called Drive to Survive, the very first thing I was taught, because I'm gonna tell you how to be a better engineer, I'm gonna tell you how to be safe, reduce 90% of the fire department, you know, accidents, whatever. And he said like three things like like wear your seatbelt, slow down, stop at stop signs and red lights. Like it was really simple, right. But what he went and explained to us is why, how we're wrecking fire trucks or how we're getting firefighters injured. So I think that's an appropriate, that's an appropriate avenue to go down to keep people safe, right.
Speaker 1:And then, on the other side of that whole thing is that there are going to be times when you're operating what we would consider our risk management profile, which is we're operating in the green, we're going to risk a lot to save a savable life. When we risk a lot, that does not mean we're going to be reckless. What that means is that we are willing to manage that because it's worth the risk to save another human being, right? And when we get an all clear on a structure and there's nobody in there, no occupant whatever, and there's no one in there, and now our risk management profile changes because now we're the risk in there, right, we're the person that could be kept, what are we actually doing? Are we in the right place, doing the right thing at the right time?
Speaker 1:And that has so many layers to it, because that is the responsibility of the task level firefighter, to be able to pull a hose line correctly, to force a door, to be physically fit to advance that hose line. It means that our engineers and our pump operators they need to be able to safely and effectively pump those trucks. Our captains need to be smart, aggressive, they need to have good education, they need to see the bigger picture, they need to manage risk at that level. Our, our commanding officers they need to have. You see how it builds, right.
Speaker 1:So when we get one of those out of whack and we get to one extreme or the other, we lose our effectiveness. But really, what happens, I think, sometimes is that we're just like living in our own little silo and we're like no, if we don't do this particular procedure, are gonna die. And it's like are, are they like? Is that, is that what the data says? Is that what the science says? Like, is that how you know? The best water is quick water, right, bruno said it. Like it is, it's. We need, we need to affect the fire of fire with modern fire behavior. What are we at? Like four minutes the flashover can. I heard a stat and I don't can't remember. I might get this wrong, but if there's a lithium ion battery like scooter bike in a room, the time from that starting to flashover is like 24 seconds yeah, it's, it's insanely fast insanely fast.
Speaker 1:So like, let's be realistic about how, unless you literally that happens right in front of your eyes you are going into an environment advancing a hose line into an environment that's already either at flashover or will be there rapidly right Now. Talk about response times and then where we build fire stations, and there's just the complexity to the conversation is so high. So I bring that back to this point. What can you do as a backseat firefighter, whoever, wherever your role is in the organization? One be honest with yourself about risk management. Right, where are you at? What are you doing? What's your mindset? Are you growing? Are you efficient? Be open to hearing other things, but also you need to have the courage to say, hey, you know, this practice is no longer.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about why we've done this one thing over and over and over, why we like I'm a, I was spent most of my career in a ladder truck. So, full disclaimer, I, I, I'm a, I'm, I love ladder work. That's, I love ladder work. So vertical ventilation Okay, so I'm a ladder guy, I like to hold right, that's what. That's awesome. But we talk about how often do we do coordinated vertical ventilation as well. We talk about how often do we do coordinated vertical ventilation as well, right, so I'm a ladder forward.
Speaker 1:I think ladders have a huge impact on the fire ground that support work that we do there. But if we're not doing it correctly and we create an uncontrolled flow path, we actually have made that situation worse. So let's talk about being aggressive, being smart, cutting a hole in the right place at the right time, but we actually have to know the ramifications of what we're doing right. And how do we get there? We train and then we couple that training with experience, and so I hope that kind of at least that's my perspective. I know that's not going to be everybody's, but had I not?
Speaker 1:If you not know about modern fire behavior, and then you learn about flow path and uncontrolled versus controlled flow path, controlling the door, fire behavior, and then you learn about flow path and uncontrolled versus controlled flow path, controlling the door and vertical ventilation and timing, and okay, you just upped the game right. And now you've made yourself not only more effective if you do it correctly, but you've also you're managing risk. And then you can say like, well, we're not doing that because x. Well, no, we still need to be able to perform that fire ground function, but we're going to do it in a way that is actually going to be beneficial to the citizens we're trying to rescue and the firefighters on the fire ground.
Speaker 1:So it's a very holistic approach to it, but, um, it's an approach that I think, at least as of today, right now, that's the approach that I'm. I'm trying to manage with it. I see that you know I'm on Instagram. I see the two polar ends right, and sometimes I think some of that stuff is like I will relate this a little back to our society. Right now, the people on the extremes are the ones who get the attention and it's like I don't think the majority of people are actually on either one of those extremes.
Speaker 2:No, they're just the loudest is what you're saying you know on both sides.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're just, they're just allowed. They're trying to be heard in a world that's full of noise. Fire service to whatever you want to talk about. We won't get into politics here. But, um, it's kind of sad to me because I'm like hey, you're missing. You're missing this whole piece in the middle, like, uh, I just had the opportunity to hear Retired Chief Higgins speak again on the Southwest Supermarket incident and that presentation is so impactful for me. But for a lot of reasons, that event, where unfortunately, firefighter Tarver lost his life, changed the fire service in ways that I didn't even realize because I wasn't really on the job at that time.
Speaker 2:It changed it across the country you know when that happened right Like I heard about that back east where I started my fire service career, you know, like as disconnected from this area as possible, and I mean all that came down the pipe. You know there was a lot of lessons learned from that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it was. You listen to that event, you listen to how much effect that is. Yeah, and it was. You listen to that event, you listen to how much effect that is. You want, you know, I don't ever want to lose a firefighter on the fire ground. That's not like you don't. Nobody wants that to happen, right, and so you don't, you don't want to be, you don't want that. Things that we have done were unfortunately. Firefighters would be either injured or killed. We have to learn from them and it's not okay to be like we're just, you know, it's okay to hang it out here and do this activity because we signed up. No, no, we, no, it's not. It's we have to be, we have to learn and and tragic things are going to happen, right and that's and we don't want them to happen.
Speaker 1:So I think the charge that I have, um, the personal, you know that relentless pursuit of being the best that you can be. I want that to live out there, because I want our firefighters to go home safely, like I want them to have. I want them to retire and have solid pensions and their health to be good, their mental and physical health to be good. I want them to enjoy their kids and their grandkids or whatever they're going to do when they're not at work or whatever. And you have to marry that and couple that with. I also want them to be very effective for other people, the citizens that we serve. I want the highest level of professionalism and training and all of that so that when the time comes and that light bar comes on and they have to go out and perform a difficult rescue, they accomplish it right, they get it done and they do it in a manner that's like good job. Right, you did your job, you honored your oath and you honored the men and women that came before you that sacrificed for that oath, if that makes sense. Right, you know the job is. We have learned so much from things that have gone wrong and things that have gone well. You honor the memory of those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice by being good at your job, right, I think.
Speaker 1:I think, when you look at um in the Academy, one of the things we did is that we would have twice a week or once a week, excuse me, uh that the recruit companies. They're broken up into engine companies or, like mine was a ladder company. Of course they would come up yeah, of course you know I was an agent for academy larry second but, uh, they come up and they had. We asked them to do a like a little presentation on someone who had unfortunately lost their life in the line of duty, right, and and so they would talk about that person and then we went out to do our, our workout for that day. We did it in honor of that person, right, we did that intentionally for a couple reasons. One of the reasons we did that is that we want to honor the memory of those who have lost their lives, right. But two, we want to learn and honor their memory by being the best that we can be, right. And so when we get to the polar opposites of safety, culture or the recklessness on the other end, I think we just miss the mark completely. Right, and I get trying to push people to be. We want to be aggressive. But what does aggressive mean? It means being smart, being fit, all of those things. So when we honor their lives, we honor that. We do it in a manner that moves us forward and doesn't divide us. It actually unites us in being, I think, the people who are in those conversations about that there's certainly people on that are maybe left of the middle or right. It's okay wherever you're, okay wherever you're at, but I want us to be moving forward in a way that makes us better Collectively.
Speaker 1:The American Fire Service, like you know, how often did we hear technology? We have some of the best gear ever. Right, our gear is amazing, but then you actually learn about the limitations of your gear. You're not invincible, even though it's the best it's probably ever been. Your face piece melts at a very low temperature, right, so, like the fuels have changes, the, the helmets that we wear, the everything like.
Speaker 1:So it's a um, I'm passionate about this. I I want firefighters to be good at their jobs. I kind of steer away from trying to be on the ends and I just say, hey, this is where I think we should go. So, um, to my brothers and sisters out there, I hope that we are. We're living up to our oath, right, we're. We're doing the things and all arenas of the fire service to make ourselves the best for the people we're serving. We are servants for public servants, right, and we're doing it in a manner that you can live to pass that information on to the next person, right, and you look back and you go hey, like every firefighter that's probably listening to this, there's things in my career that I look back and be like oh my God, why did I do that? You know like or hey, I got really lucky that day, right.
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 1:And you go, man, we were lucky. Okay, let's not be in a situation like that anymore. And that does not detract from look, I like to be aggressive, I want to be in the game, right, I want to be on those fires, I want to be first. It's okay to say that. But I also want to do it with a level of maturity and a level of responsibility and a level of professionalism that the public also demands from us, whether they say it or not. They say it with the amount of money that we ask and they give to us, and the and the and the trust that they put into us.
Speaker 1:Right, how many other professions can walk into somebody's house at two in the morning, they hand you their child who's really sick, or you know what I mean. Like, there is a, there is a level to this job, a weight to this job that I don't think we need to take lightly. And when you don't take it lightly, you're probably on the right path because you'll probably do this job. You're probably at least in the conversation and trying to better yourself so that you can model those things when you're riding on a fire truck.
Speaker 2:So I rambled on, rambled on, rambled on no no, no, you're, you're good, but you know what you rambled. But you hit everything that I really wanted to make sure that you touched on because they're they're such important topics, right, and, and the biggest takeaway and again, billy, correct me if I misinterpreted what you're trying to say, but I really want to drive this home for the audience. Right, like he had mentioned a lot of things over the past couple of minutes, like saying things on it's unacceptable to kill a fireman on a house. Right, like, I agree with you a thousand percent, like on all those statements, but with all that said, to like you're saying what does the public expect from us? The public does not, does not, I guarantee it, does not want to see us get hurt or killed. Right, but in the same breath, they also expect us to risk our lives to go in there to save their loved ones. Right, they do not want us to get hurt or injured. Right, make that very clear. But they also do their family member is above us. Right, and, and that's that's a takeaway Like Billy said, like, hey, after we do that, primary, all clear, right, you know, and then the only people that are stuck in this building and are our biggest worry is the fireman Right.
Speaker 2:That's. That's when we pivot like okay, we've already done that primary search. We know there's no civilians in here, so are we in this building for the correct reason? Right, like is there savable property at that point? Is, you know, is an?
Speaker 2:exposure issue whatever the case might be. So at no point is billy saying like you know, we're going to uh, disregard the civilians needs. Now he's saying the opposite we're going to cater to their needs right in the most professional manner.
Speaker 1:Is that kind of yeah, yeah 100, I think when you look at it when you say, um, you ask that question, are we in the most professional manner? Is that kind of yeah, yeah, 100%. I think when you look at it, when you say you ask that question, are we in the right place at the right time, doing the right thing there you go. And I can't like hey, if it's a room in Constance Fire and we get an all clear, put the room in Constance Fire.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:We're not gonna let the house burn gets better like I have. I'm in my office. I have two paintings on my wall that my mom painted way a long time ago. They're my most probably physical prized possessions. Right, my house was on fire and someone's like what do you want? I'm like one, I need you to get my my flag from my grandfather and my flag from my dad when they passed away and get those paintings right, because those are irreplaceable, correct? But at the end of the day, I'm not saying like, if my house is working, super working for super dangerous, they're just physical things. They're not everything Right, you know what I mean. Like it's, like you don't, that's just property at the end of the day, I have those memories and those will always be with me. Like it's, I don't want you to.
Speaker 1:The risk management is is there Right? People's property is important. We will risk a little. That's why the risk management profile to me it's important. We will risk a little. That's why the risk management profile to me, why I believe in it, is because there's an appropriate amount of risk based on the situation that you're in. And that's risk management. It's not saying like we don't go, we're not going interior. We're only going to do it. But that's unacceptable. Like no, you have to. That's why you have to be a thinking firefighter. That's Like goodness gracious, like if we, if we just go off of the I don't know, let's just say you don't have a lot of experience and you have to go get you. You have to go find your experience Right, you can't, like I.
Speaker 1:There's a term I learned a long time ago. It's called learning on scholarship. Right, which means somebody else went through the thing. Learn from them. You know, like, hey, I made, why is that passed down in the morning? So I'm like, hey, we had this call yesterday. We had a. You know it was just, it was a weird one, right, you know you had that conversation and we had a weird one yesterday. It was X. Well, you're learning on scholarship and that you can take that hey, let's go walk that building or go look at that fire they had. Or that vehicle expectation that was super complex.
Speaker 1:And now you're, you're leveling up, right, you're managing risk appropriately, you are serving the citizens, you're honoring your oath, you're honoring the departments that you work for and the outcome is good. And that's all we can ask for, right? And then, and then we know we're honest with ourselves because I learned from my mistakes. Hey, I uh, that's I didn't do. I remember when 360, we came into like giving a full 360 on a house, came into our area of the region, right, a lot of questions like how am I supposed to hop the fence to see the back? You know what I mean Like, so there's like, there's like. And then I had someone tell me they're like. They said hey, you know, if you can't get a full 360, a 270, you can get this side, this side. You're what? And what they're trying to teach me when I was in that stage of learning was you need to get some perspective before committing tactically in this arena.
Speaker 1:And this is why it's important and I'm like oh, I never thought of it that way or forcing you to take those blinders off for at least a couple seconds and that's why that's where you at least hey, did we teach firefighters like hey, when you're, when you're masking up or're doing like hey, you don't get off the fire truck and run so fast around the fire. You do 20 laps around the fire truck looking for the tool. It's like no, we train, you, learn where the tool is so that when you shut that cab door and you've got to grab the force with the iron right and you got to be in your proper PPE, you got to be out that and you get all that stuff right. We want you to look up. We're managing risk, right, we're trying to be effective, but we're also saying, hey, look up, why do we not walk backwards on the fire ground? Why do we not do this? Because we're trying to push you towards being efficient and managing that risk piece in there at the same time. So it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:I've met a lot I mean these are not my I would disclaimer man.
Speaker 1:This stuff is all the stuff I've learned from people who are way smarter than me.
Speaker 1:I've got a boss that is man so incredibly talented and smart when it comes to hazard zone management and talking about the fire ground and challenging even my own things and the questions that I get asked or will push back. We'll have conversations about certain things like when we do this and when we don't do this. When we work, we've been a bit when we don't that they really inspire me and change me to like evaluate what my opinions are and all those based on just my opinion or they actually based upon whatever, like on the data, like, and I'm not a huge like, I'm not a dad, I'm not a techie, kind of like the data that doesn't come easily for me, but looking at you know, you know, was it firefighter post calls, uh, firefighter rescue survey, staying up to date on the near miss like you're constantly got to have. And that shifts all the way back to that mindset that we talked about, you know, an hour ago, which is, um, that that always continually learning mindset. And if we're there, my brother, we will be good.
Speaker 2:You know, dude, I wholeheartedly believe in every, obviously everything you're saying, right, but I mean, it's, it's you. You drop so much knowledge for everyone listens. I, I really hope somebody everyone that's listening to this took at least one thing away that then go back to the kitchen table, talk to the boys about right, or like hey, I listened to this one thing and it's something that we've never done or something that you know, hey, it resonated with me. That's, that's what this is all about. And then before we, before we kind of close out the uh training culture topic, because we could literally talk on this for hours upon end. We're already, you know, we're already an hour and a half into just this right. So, without forcing to end it, I'm going to have to a little bit, but just just remember, um, if dependent on the department you work for, depending on the calls, depending on the culture, whatever it is right. If you don't have the opportunity, if you don't have your own training academy, right For whoever you work with, say, it's a slower department and you just don't get the sets and reps that you need, right, look out, for there's, besides the classes and everything else Billy was talking about a little shameless plug on this, right Is look in your region for a fool's chapter, right? So this whole podcast is sponsored and brought to you by copper state fools, which is out in Arizona, right, first active chapter, um, in Arizona, right now. So I guarantee you, wherever you live, right, there is a fool's chapter that's remotely close to you. Uh, most States have multiple chapters, right, so is a fool's chapter that's remotely close to you. Most states have multiple chapters, right. So those resources, right, look out to those guys because not only part of their bylaws during their meetings is sharing stories. Right? So, after we honor the fallen, right, and do a toast and go over what was accomplished in the last meeting, right, it's a round table. So you get to a fool's meeting. Right, depending on wherever you live, you're going to have most likely guys from different departments, different areas, everything else, and you're open to listening to stories about how calls went good, bad, indifferent. Right, and even though you didn't get a chance to run that call, guess what, before you retire, you might have a chance to run that exact call.
Speaker 2:Right that call, guess what, before you retire, you might have a chance to run that exact call? Right, and I guarantee you that because of sitting down talking to a member, listening to podcasts, being at a fool's meeting, whatever the case might be, you're like, shit, I have a general idea of what we could do. Guys, let's have you thought about ABC. And they're like, oh shit, you know, that might work, let's try, right. And if that doesn doesn't try, we go to d and e next, right. So I mean, we're really good at that transition to okay, that doesn't work, let's rinse and repeat. Rinse and repeat, kind of deal. But um, I the resources in today's day and age, compared, to, say, like when me and billy first joined the, uh, the fire service, it's endless the resources you have now. So if you're not taking advantage of that, that's on you. But but go ahead, billy.
Speaker 1:No, I was going to say that's a great point is that the resources are out there. I think a part of that conversation, what you're saying, what I like about that sharing the stories, is that you part of what we talk about in generality, like being a thinking firefighter. What does that even mean? Part of me. Critical thinking skills, right, don't just accept what I say. Challenge it. Think about it, right, um, I I am big right now on resourcing my material when I do training. Right, a bibliography. Why? Because, even if it's hey, we watched um, is it mike campo, the blue door guy? Is that his name?
Speaker 1:yes, I don't think the guy from new york city yeah, yeah, um, he has YouTube.
Speaker 1:He has all these videos on the blue door, right, like so you watch it and you're like he's talking. He'll give you like instances of like construction with that and you're like he's referencing. It's not just something he made up, it was learned over time, experienced. It's information, it's information.
Speaker 1:I am never, I will never, get offended at somebody who challenges what I say or like because I might get it wrong. You know what I mean and I may be operating on. Hey, the data actually doesn't say that, right, or you haven't thought so. I think you have to develop those and you have to do in a way that's professional, right, I'm not saying about argue, like challenge. Like when I say all that, I don't mean we don't want to argue, right, that doesn't move us forward, but like, hey, you said, uh, talk to me about how you got there, cause I see it differently than you. Right, when we do that, when we have those critical thinking skills, oh man, you're going to grow and that's where stories come from. When you're like I'll tell you all my failures, right, I'll tell you, man, I did this and we cut the hole in the wrong place and I didn't see this and I wasn't paying attention to that and I didn't know, and my equipment, my fitness was whatever it is, um, other people, you, you do it in a way that's like, oh, like, man, we really can learn and really, like you said, the resources are out there. A one little little little thing to that, um, something that was really cool for me to see.
Speaker 1:I've had these conversations nationally and some friends of mine across the city about where the fire service is going and, man, I am so excited about the people we're hiring. I think the fire service is in a really good place now. We're we're hiring a lot, right, but my brothers and sisters who are coming into this job, um, and when you meet them, I think this, the fire service, is going to go in a really good direction. They're smart, they learn faster than I did, they're enthusiastic. Think about this. They're signing up to do this job with almost, I hope, a larger knowledge of what this job actually is and the risks associated with it. Right, you and I came on the job. Did anyone ever mention cancer? Never, no, never. That came on Now. These kids, these men and women, they're adults, no matter if they're 18 years old, they're young adults.
Speaker 2:They're still kids. We can call them that. They're old enough.
Speaker 1:I'm 42 and I'm like man, I was in my head at 18. I look at it and I say I'm 42 and I'm like man, I was in my head at 18. But I look at it and I say I am, I'm stoked because what I see is a lot of really, because the fire service you and I, steve, we've talked about this. It's going to change after we live and it may look something different and that's okay. But what I'm seeing from them and it inspires me and you're going to get that opportunity to recruit your officer and you're going to see it too, and it's, you see it, and it's like raw infancy because they don't really know anything about the job too much.
Speaker 1:Right, but the process to get to get hired, to go, what you have to go to do, the things you have to do, knowing the risks that are associated and what the job is, right, like it's not. You know it's not all fires all the time or technical rescue calls all the time. Those are low frequency, high risk events, right, it's awesome, man I'm so. I'm happy about where the like I love to watch. That's when we got to the thing about NRTO Proud, like you can't describe it unless you've been through it To sit on a stage and watch recruit firefighters, become firefighters and get pinned right. Like you. Have this well up of emotion like I got teary eyed up there.
Speaker 2:I'm like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like, but you're, but it's like, it's this level of like, yes, like that, watching them enter into this profession. Man, I'm so excited where we're going to go, like where this is going to go.
Speaker 2:And nationally you meet people.
Speaker 1:I meet young firefighters from across the country. Or you go to teach a class, you take a class, and they're hyped up and they're proud of their organizations. Man, that makes me we hear so much negative. The longer you go on the job you can hear negative stuff. But when you're around those people who are like, hey, man, our organization is really doing something cool, man, high five. I love to hear uh one of uh one of the agencies here in the Valley just started technical rescue program and I was talking with a training chief and I was so happy for them because there's an opportunity for their membership and I was like, hey, that is awesome that you guys were able to do that for your community and also that opportunity provided for your members. Good job, like, awesome, like so that kind of stuff. Man, I'm a cheerleader for the fire service. I try to keep a very positive attitude because the job can be difficult, but I'm pretty stoked where we're going.
Speaker 2:I love it and that's a. That's a good way to end this, like um, yeah, there's there's a lot of negative atmosphere when it comes down to generations, right, but I always like to try to remind guys in our generation, because we're the same generation. Now, I like to remind guys in our generation I always call them, like you know, the 80s babies or whatever. We're the best there ever was, right. There's guys that are senior dudes, like, let's say, the dudes that have already retired, right, when they were booters. You know their senior firemen were Korean war vets, world War were booters. You know their senior firemen were, uh, korean war vets, war war, two vets, maybe even.
Speaker 2:And guess what those guys were saying this generation sucks, they're a bunch of pussies, you know it's. So it's. It's. Every generation is different, you know, and it's up to us now, because we're now in the leadership positions right in this generation, we've been on the job long enough and have promoted through the ranks or have maintained that senior firefighter position. It is now our job to make that generation better than our generation, right, and then they continue that progression. So it's. I love how positive you're ending that, because it could go any way. You know it could be it really could.
Speaker 2:So that's a way to freaking look at it to be progressive and efficient. You got to give, you know, you got to give every generation a chance, but more importantly it's it's like you said just share that knowledge, share that wealth right, make them better than you are and and if they end up exceeding you before the end of your career, that means you did a freaking amazing job. Good for you, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you'd love to see people as a company officer. Um, you know, I I had a long journey through to being a captain. Um, you know, I was at a. I was at a thing the other day we're doing some prep for doing a captain's academy organization and I was watching the men and women who were in there, right, and they're, they're going through it and you look at them and I remember when they got hired, right, like for a few of them they were fooders on my truck. A couple of them have we've worked together, you know.
Speaker 1:Uh, some of them are, you know, and I know I'm all, I'm friends with them all and you watch them.
Speaker 1:That's an awesome feeling, that is such a cool feeling to watch them like start to come and they have their own, they're growing and they're they're challenging things and they're speaking about stuff and and you're like some of them I mean, hopefully the capitalists you know they're smarter than me, they are there's like man, that took me 15 years to get where you're at and you have 10 years on the job and you're crushing, and so, like I'm so proud of, like to watch that happen.
Speaker 1:And especially, I watch people come on the job around the valley. I meet them in trt school, like I guess that's one of the cool things about my gig is that I get to meet people from all across the the region, um, and to watch them like five, ten years later, to watch them run a successful mountain rescue, and you're like awesome, you know, like good for you. You've honored the oath, you're doing what you said you were gonna do, you're living your. Whatever appreciate you want to use, um, that's just that's. That's the stuff that I, uh, that I'll miss being a part of when I retire.
Speaker 1:you know, eventually, someday maybe way down the road but it's the stuff that really keeps you going when it's like you know you're, you're endlessly going through a budget meeting, you're trying to figure out how to work. You know, like I wasn't taught how to manage a budget and now I'm learning how to have, do all that and all that stuff. In the fire service there's role. That's the stuff that keeps me going. That's why I do it, because and that's why I, like you, know people like like you and the other people that we're, we have in this area because they're, they're in that same mindset let's make it better.
Speaker 2:So yeah, dude, I love it all right.
Speaker 1:Well, um, yeah, so with that, said right, uh listening by this point it's okay, come back, that's okay.
Speaker 2:So let's get into. We'll, we'll wrap the show up, right and um, let's do the questions for season one, right? So you spit a bunch of knowledge. You're ready to just do a little personal answers here?
Speaker 2:All right, brother. So we ask. So this is a why. We ask the why all the time. We ask the why from guys that want to be on the job hey, why do you want to be a fireman? All the way up to promotional processes and even just hey, why do you want to do another niche job within the fire service? But this why is for you? Why? Or what happened that turned your life around and basically said, hey, this is a profession, this is my calling. This is why I want to commit the rest of my life to what was, what was that why or what was that moment for Billy.
Speaker 1:Um, that's a really that's a great question. My why getting hired? Um legitimate my? My brother was hit by a car and killed when I was 16 years old.
Speaker 2:Oh my god and at that yeah yeah, it was really super tragic.
Speaker 1:Um, hey, uh, I, uh and it's not one of those stories where it's like, at that moment I knew I wanted to be a firefighter. Um, it was. It was really, though, that impressed on me at a really young age that I wanted to have a job where I could really impact people's lives in a positive manner and be there for people in all capacities of their like maybe their worst day, maybe not Right, um, so that that really kind of like generated. I didn't know where that was going to take me. Um, I actually wanted to be a wildland guy Actually, um, that's where I wanted to go. I love a wildland guy actually, um, that's where I wanted to go. I love the outdoors.
Speaker 1:So, um, but I went on a ride along and, uh, my friend was getting into fire service. Um, a fellow, uh, fellow rto in the next class, one of my best friends. I wouldn't be in the fire service without him. Uh, we were young never really, you know, when he was doing it, and he was like, hey, you should check this out. And, man, I was hooked. I was like, yep, that's what I want to do with the rest of my life how old were you at that point ish?
Speaker 1:uh, 18, okay, so 18. When I started the ride along. Yeah, I met, uh um, captain dresser when I was 12. You know he obviously wasn't captain, we're the same age but we went to high school together and he just was super influential in that and I love giving him a shout out because he kind of like said, hey, you should check this out. And uh, man, it just kind of clicked right, right, you kind of you kind of um, when you have kind of this driving thing inside you and then it matches up with something you feel like you could do.
Speaker 1:Uh, I was like, nope, I want to be a firefighter and that's really, yeah, it took me a couple of. I mean, obviously I was testing when nine 11 happened. So obviously, post nine 11, hiring slowed down, um, but I was very, very fortunate that I got hired in 2003, full time Um, and so, man, love it, love this job. Uh, wouldn't, wouldn't change. Uh, I'm glad I did it. I look, I'm very happy that I stepped in and that opportunity was given to me, um, because really, like everyone knows, you don't get there on your own. You have people who pour into you and believe in you and, um, that's, that's my why you know that's.
Speaker 2:that's why I'm here I love it and, and wholeheartedly. Uh, I can say this because I know you pretty well like, and the fire service is better because you're, you're part of it, so that's a, that's a great thing, right.
Speaker 2:So now on to um, the kind of the other part of the why. So we now know why, right, or how you got started. But so now, who? Let's do the who. So who's been the most influential person for you so far in your career? Doesn't have to be a fireman right, but they had to have affected your fire service career. So so far, who has been the most influential person for you in your fire service career?
Speaker 1:so this is a tough one, man, because when I say a name, I'm going to get like I'm going to leave a bunch of people out that's how it works, though I know.
Speaker 1:Um, so a people like I'm going to give you a couple and then I'm going to get to one that's probably had the most impact Perfect, yeah, bobby Goodenow from the Phoenix Fire Department believed in me as an instructor and really helped me. He changed my career by giving me an opportunity to be an instructor, and so he is just a great dude and just a great leader and a great instructor and really gave me a shot. Really, really, I wouldn't be anywhere in the tech rescue industry without his mentorship, really, and his friendship. So awesome dude, but he's had a big impact on my life. Well, personally, though, in 2016, 2015, I met a then captain by the name of Rain Gray. He hosts the podcast Fireground Fitness.
Speaker 2:Great podcast. We follow that. That's a good one.
Speaker 1:Great podcast. We became friends because we were both into long distance running at that time and we kind of like developed this friendship. And I tell everybody the story. I called him one time and said, hey, will you be my fire service mentor? You helped me grow and we just developed a friendship and he, professionally and personally, just has been a really big influence in my life and I love that guy, I love what he does, I love what he stands for. So that guy right there has been the most influential for me. Check out his podcast. I'll shame his podcast. Check out his podcast. He just has just it's, it's a good um. And then that has led to other relationships for so many people Like man, like I could go on for probably 10 minutes about them, but there's been a lot of folks who poured into me and believed in me and, uh, I hope to honor them by doing the same for others.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely, and, like I said, it's fire ground fitness podcast. Please check it out. It's on my most recent um uh favorite shows to listen to, and our man of the hour right now has been on that multiple times, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've done that a couple of times. Minor. You know, don't you guard if you've listened to, if you're this far in our podcast, there's some way better guests on there. I mean he has from Frank's lead, so like there's like, uh, the people who've been on that podcast, like man, awesome, always learn something. I love to hear the stories about people's journey and what they're about, because you just it helps shape like how hopeful I am for the fire service and not all easy subjects, right, I mean hard Sometimes. There's some people out there who've been through some such and hard things and their willingness to share man, that's so cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's a you you know prime example too. So one of the episodes we talked to um, a gentleman from back east right, and he, he explains this whole story on how he got into the peer support and he explains I mean it's a very vulnerable moment for the ones that get to listen to that it's a he explains on a, a situation that happened to him that pretty much altered his entire life. And if he didn't take the steps that he did and made it such a positive outcome between changing the peer, the peer program, accelerating it, becoming a leader and everything else, it could have went down. Really it could. It could have ended up horribly. He could have left the fire service God forbid hurt himself. I mean there's, there's so many different options, so it's it's, it's crazy on on the people that interject themselves into your life at the certain point, you know, and then the influence that they have, or the influence that you might have on somebody, you know, but it's something you say so yeah, it's amazing, and that's the fire service as a whole.
Speaker 2:So that's one of the many things that make us an amazing organization to be be part of. So, dude, all right. So now we know the most influential person, right? So now we know the most influential person right and I and that's a hard question for everyone to answer.
Speaker 1:They're like bro, I got so many.
Speaker 2:I'm like, hey, it's, it's okay, right yeah, you don't need to list them all, they know, right yeah? So how about? How about this?
Speaker 1:So how about your favorite fire department tradition? So what would that be? I love I, brothers and sisters, when whoever shows up to the station with that helmet or a badge or however your system. A lot of cities do it a different way, but man, so incredibly happy for them, a real joy when you watch somebody get promoted, because if you've ever been through those processes, you know what it takes to be promoted. And so when that moment of the fire chief or whoever handing them um, their, their helmet or their badge, so rad, so cool to see, love it, love it, love it and and that's a first on this podcast so far so I really love that answer and I do.
Speaker 2:I feel the same way too, and especially if you had even the smallest role in developing their career, it's like like it does pull your heartstrings. You're like man, like this is like I feel so happy and good for them because, like you said, like I know how difficult the process is and then if you did have a chance to influence them some way, man, they trusted me enough to help influence their career and, look it paid off. I was able to assist them in their goals. Like that's all the way around. It's I can't ask for, like you were saying, the whole pinning the brand new recruits becoming firefighters. It's, you know, I haven't had that opportunity yet, that's coming in my very near future, but it's. It's one of those things where I agree with you. It's like that.
Speaker 1:That feeling is almost indescribable I watched a uh when I was an rto, our one of our mentors, a full-time mentor, got promoted to engineer during while he was there. The process got them on list, got promoted, and so it happened while the recruits were in um in a class and so they found out about it. So we're all in the Bay kind of talking to this person after they'd kind of gotten their badge and stuff and the recruits to honor him that way. Um, but it was really cool. I love that stuff. Man, that is um. You know you're just watching servant leaders and people who promote that. Yeah, love it. That's so my favorite. And that one was even a hard one. I was like that, that's what I love well, good, let's go.
Speaker 2:So last question um, let's complete opposite, right? This isn't a traditional question.
Speaker 2:This is this is just a fire service in general. So if you, if, if this exists right, you could snap your fingers and through fm, right, fucking magic, something automatically changes, right, but you can only pick one. But, more importantly, we really want to know the why. So, in your opinion, what would billy change through the american fire service, if you could snap your fingers right now, with no sweat equity, it's going to change right now. But, more importantly, why? Why would you change that thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it's going to go real proud to kind of a little heavy here. But I would take the way the the mental health problems that lead to our firefighters hurting themselves. My heart is broken over and over hearing stories of guys and gals who have, like, whether they've had a suicide attempt or they've committed like hurting themselves, and just the stuff that comes out of this job, the pain that those people like we experience and they've experienced man it, I my heart breaks. That that's when I talk about the way of the job. I I my heart breaks. That that's the when I talk about the way of the job and when I say that, that's always in the forefront of my mind is to know the stuff that our, our, our family experiences and goes through.
Speaker 1:And so you and that that is so rampant across the American fire service right now, like you, you can't go a couple of days without hearing um of that and that one was close to because of the cancer thing. Like right now we've got you know, we've got brothers and sisters in the Valley who are going through it. You know what I mean. Like every, almost every weekly, I hear of another friend of mine who's got a rare form of aggressive can't and you're like my goodness man, so that that. But if I could snap my fingers, um, yeah, I would take that away in a heartbeat. I wish it could, I wish it could go away. Um, I think we're doing leaps and bounds and I think the why behind that is that we're human beings, right, and when you get to a place where people are being hurt or they're in a place that bad of a place, man, um, I love, I love my brothers and sisters and I want them to be whole, healthy, I want them to experience a beautiful life and and you're going to have hardships, I know that, but I want for them the best, and so when we're in that way, I've certainly had my own struggles in my life and my demons and some things that I wish that I've, you know, been around it and it's like I care, I care a lot about people. That's kind of why I get this job. I really do this job I really do and to care for your family and be able to help them. That way, man, I, my hat is off to the men and women who are out there, the peer support, the, our, our families, who are out there helping our, our family, get help right. The centers that are there, the, the, just the resources, the people that I've met, the people that are doing the good work, as I call it, to save their brothers and sisters those are the heroes in my life. I love those people.
Speaker 1:There's some people here in the Valley that are doing Joe Spector with Grace and Growth retired fire fighters. He's out there doing a lot of resiliency work, doing the good work to help our family, and that stuff is hard. It's so incredibly messy, right, right, because you're dealing with people and you're dealing with hard issues, but they're willing to wade in and step in there. Those people, to me, are the. I love those people that are doing that work and you know to our listeners out there, man are doing that work and, uh, you know to the to our listeners out there man like, uh, there's always. I hope that you have someone, I hope you have those support systems in place, I hope you're working towards it and if you need those resources, man, reach out to someone like it at some point. We're all going to experience hard life things right, whether in the job or off the job.
Speaker 1:Um, the network that have people that I have watched be willing to go to the ends of the earth to help their family, their brothers and sisters. They're out there, man. So I don't want our people to feel alone, because that's part of this why we love this job. Right, it's a family. Right, sometimes it's a weird family. Yeah, we're, uh, we're, we're in this together. You ride, you know, those moments on the fire truck that I will cherish the rest of my life when it's that tight knit crew and those conversations that you have at two o'clock in the morning and that those relationships that you build, watching man be there for one another. That's, that's. If there's one thing, yeah, so I could change that. That mental health game, um, yeah, I would take it. I would want my brothers and sisters to be healed, that's for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2:I love it Well that's a first, so that's a really really good one man Way outside the box than I would sit down with me to go over this and just to spread some knowledge and better the American Fire Service right. So is there anything before we sign off? Anything? You just want to leave the audience with.
Speaker 1:Train, train, train, train. No, I would say, yeah, probably that train Be professional man. Just this job goes quickly, I blink and I I'm over my 20, um, and it is. I'm trying these days to be really grateful for all parts of this job. Um, I don't think we talked about that a little bit, is that, um, the good and the bad, the ups and the downs have the people. I'm trying to really appreciate and just be grateful for those opportunities and those people, because the people are what matter. It doesn't have to look for a firetruck yard where you work, the people that you meet along here. I'm just trying to make sure that I extend that I'm really, really thankful in my own life for all those influences and for opportunities like this to ramble on for an hour and a half.
Speaker 2:Well, for all those influences and for opportunities like this to ramble on for an hour and a half. Well, perfect, well, listen, dude, we, we are grateful, right, myself, the listeners, the copper state fools, uh, copper state, uh, fireman pockets. We are grateful for your time and your knowledge base and the willingness to just spread the good word, brother. So remember right, train, uh, go out there, fail, right, that's, that's what we're talking about, and then just get better, um, so listen. That wraps it up for the, uh, the training for today, right, so please catch us again in two weeks and, billy, thank you for your time. Brother, thank you.
