Copper State Firemen Podcast
Copper State Firemen
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Podcast for Firemen burning the ships of Complacency, Laziness, and Excuses. We are promoting love and passion for the job, encouraging eagerness, and mastering the craft of the Fire Service!
The information, opinions, values, recommendations, and ideas are of the host and individuals on this podcast, and are not affiliated or endorsed by the fire department, organization, or companies the individuals works for. This podcast is for general information only! Indorced by Copper State Fools and Solid Fondation team LLC.
Copper State Firemen Podcast
Functional Fitness and Wellness in the Fire Service
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Discover the critical connection between functional fitness and occupational wellness in the fire service with our special guest, Garrett Lee, a captain paramedic and wellness expert. Garrett brings a wealth of knowledge to the table, guiding us through the nuances of fitness and wellness, and the unique demands facing firefighters. From the balance of strength, speed, and endurance to the impact of job-specific training, this episode offers valuable insights into achieving optimal performance and longevity in the fire service. Hear Garrett's personal journey from a power athlete to embracing the endurance challenges of firefighting, and learn how movement screening can prevent injuries and enhance career sustainability.
Our conversation takes a deeper dive into building fitness habits and the role of mentorship within the fire service. We touch on the transition from a gym-focused mindset to adopting functional fitness principles, sharing stories of mentorship and personal growth that underscore the value of learning proper mechanics and maintaining humility in training. Garrett shares his experiences with influential mentors who have shaped his career, emphasizing the power of guidance and tradition in nurturing a supportive and growth-oriented firehouse culture. The cherished tradition of kitchen table gatherings is highlighted as a cornerstone for building camaraderie and fostering personal development.
This episode is more than just a discussion on fitness; it’s a comprehensive look at how physical preparedness is intertwined with community and crew responsibility. We explore the challenges of implementing fitness standards, the role of leadership in promoting wellness, and the importance of maintaining motivation through regular training and team-building exercises. Whether you're a seasoned firefighter, a new recruit, or someone interested in the fire service, this episode provides practical advice and inspiring stories that remind us of the importance of staying prepared, staying healthy, and staying connected. Join us for an empowering conversation that promises to ignite your passion for fitness and service.
The time it takes for us to gear up, turn out, respond, stretch line, start, searching is not ours. It belongs to the folks waiting for us to perform.
Speaker 2:Welcome everybody. Copper State Firemen podcast. This podcast is for firemen burning the ships of complacency, laziness and excuses. Podcasters for firemen burning the ships of complacency, laziness and excuses. We're promoting love and passion for the job, encouraging eagerness and mastering the craft of the fire service. Remember the information, opinion, values, recommendation and ideas are the host and the individuals of this podcast and are not affiliated or endorsed by the fire departments, organization or companies the individuals work for. This podcast is for general information use only. Brought to you by the Copper State Fools and sponsored by Solid Foundation Team LLC. Let's go All right guys. Welcome back Sitting here with garrett lee.
Speaker 2:Garrett's got eight years in the american fire service. He's currently a captain paramedic, iso that's incident safety officer and he works for the injured workers advocate program in the department he works for. Right now. He's a founding member of that injured workers advocacy program, which is huge. We'll touch on that a lot today. I hope. Uh is the lead of the recruit wellness cadre program for the academy. So that's the uh, the bare bones when it comes down to this functional fitness that we're going to talk about today, especially relating it to those brand new guys. Education wise. Garrett's got a bs from asu in exercise and wellness. He is cscs certified um natural strength and conditioning advocate and fit to thrive wellness ambassador. That's. It's a lot of stuff, brother. Did I miss anything?
Speaker 1:no, it's, that's pretty much it okay, yeah oh good deal, all right.
Speaker 2:So first of all, listen, thanks for taking time out of your day welcoming me into your house to do this, uh, this podcast. I really appreciate it, but this is something that I grabbed you from day one, as soon as we decided to do this. Saying this is a. It's a very important issue. Uh, in the american fire service, I honestly believe that, uh, it's not as bad out here from, for example, to other parts of the country, uh, especially where I came from. But, um, before we kind of do a deep dive into all that, just start telling me about functional fitness. Like where, where do you want to start with this? Does this start at the recruit level? Does this start at? I just fill this in, brother.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean really like where do you start? Like, kind of the question. Well, before I start, thanks for having me and you know I feel honored that you took the time. I know you reached out, um glad to speak on this stuff. But like, where do you start with functional fitness? Or like I'll tell you right now. I'm not the expert, not a guy. Yeah, you know, um, very much like the fire service, it's an ever-evolving thing, right, so like we talk about the fire service in general, it's ever-changing, so it's, in my opinion. So is fitness. So is wellness, like wellness is, and people tend to like just put fitness into, just like there is a difference between fitness and wellness, right, so like yeah, like yeah absolutely it down.
Speaker 1:You know, like, where do I want to start? Actually want to kind of go backwards and start with wellness, like well, let's go.
Speaker 2:Let's go backwards, tell us about wellness, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so like wellness actually had you know your, your eight pillars of wellness occupational, financial right, intellectual, environmental that's what makes up your wellness, your well-being, those kind of things, physical, like fitness kind of, just falls under the physical side of wellness, right, and then fitness is inside of that right you know, so, or functional fitness.
Speaker 1:I think what makes the fire service, you know, like we kind of get into that is what unique is. It's also a part of occupational wellness, right? So yeah, absolutely. So we kind of have a two-pillar thing being being in the fire service. But I I say this all the time, so your, your question, talking about wellness or whatever it's like, hey, man, I, there's a lot of know-it-alls in the fire service, right?
Speaker 1:so yeah, I always say it's like this whatever, like I already know everything, you know, and I always say that like I'm not the know-it-all, but it's like firemen think they know everything about. And it's the yeah, it's politics fighting fire. Yeah, finances okay, you know how many financial experts we got right? Yeah, and then fitness. You know it's, I already know there's nothing you can't tell me right yeah, and and I think, like that's a stigma that you have to.
Speaker 1:You know, I think we understand right like we've been doing this a while and obviously we know how important it is, but there's always something to learn, it's always changing, there's more data, research, things like that coming out. So you know, like you want to break down the fundamentals of fitness. You know, like, what is what is physical wellness? Right, you have your strength, your aerobic capacity, flexibility, body comp, diet and recovery. You know, I like to add that. You know, I think those are the the bullet points of physical wellness. You know, you start getting into what is functional fitness. Okay, now we're talking about specificity, right, that word that's kind of a big word for firemen, right?
Speaker 2:like oh yeah, but what does?
Speaker 1:it mean? It just means like, hey, are we doing stuff that's specific to the job? Okay, right, like are, are we training firefighting in in mind? Right, like, what are our work cycles and and I can kind of get maybe into that down the road or whatever but yeah, like specificity, are we doing training that is applicable to actual firefighting? Football players do it right, they're doing power exercises, power cleans, deadlifts, and then they're doing the drills right, every drill. They're in mini camps right now. Right, we're in preseason football. They're at mini camp doing specificity, like workouts right, per their position.
Speaker 2:Right, right, like, obviously a quarterback is doing a completely different workout, functional fitness, stretching, everything compared to that running back or wide receiver, right 100, yeah, so, so how do you take that approach and then implement that to the fire service? Because you've heard, I know, you've heard this, right, I've, I've heard this also and I I hate when guys say this. It's like, um bro, the best shape of my life I was in was the day I graduated the academy. Right, like, whew, like shame on you, bro, but like it should be, be embarrassing, but unfortunately that's one of those things that's almost a uh, a pillar, like they're proud of something like that yeah, like that's just the beginning.
Speaker 1:You learn the foundation. You know, like you're learning the foundation of what it's like to be a firefighter, but you should also be learning the foundation of what it's like to have that kind of fitness level, right? So so if you, if you think about it like this and like this is kind of what we do in our cadre and things like that is when you're talking about specificity or programming, right, like how do you do that with firefighters, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like exactly.
Speaker 1:So kind of going back, like I have my certified strength and conditioning specialist through the NSCA. Okay, so the NSCA probably the gold standard around the world when it comes to strength and conditioning right, they're the hub. You go to any D1 college professional team. They're going to have some sort of CSCS on staff and or they get their certifications through the NSCA, right, they, they're the ones that do the data, the research, you know. And there's other programs out there and, as you know, acsm, american college sports medicine, you got all these other NASM, right, they're all good and they and they all are on the same team.
Speaker 1:But the NSCA is up there, right, what you talk about, or when you, when you start breaking it down and into programming, um, and what you do is a cscs, you sit down and you go okay, we're going to put this athlete into what we call a movement analysis triangle. Okay, so there's, you know, think about this with me here, since we don't have a whiteboard, right, okay, Okay, everyone listening to have a whiteboard start following Garrett's directions to the T right now.
Speaker 2:Here we go, here we go. Does it matter what color they use? Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's funny because in my PowerPoint, when I give this to the recruits and to the RTOs, right, I actually go, I like drawing with cray and I and I put it in colors and in like shapes, like ladder guys, like crayons and so that they taste delicious, right? Okay, I apologize, no no, you're good, no, let's go ahead so yeah, so you draw a triangle, right triangle, okay, movement analysis triangle.
Speaker 1:If you talk about this, at the top of the triangle you have strength, okay so. And then we'll go bottom left is speed, bottom right is endurance, okay, right. So in that, inside of this triangle, right, you, you classify every athlete. So, okay, let's thinking in between speed and strength. It's power, those. So you're gonna to have power in there.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So if you were to give like another shape to an athlete, we'll say a football player, right. Where do they fit out in this triangle and what shape are they? So, if you envision this right, we know that football players are more power athletes, basketball players, right. So they're going to be kind of a triangle, triangular shape within the big triangle, right in the strength, speed and just triangle heavier on that strength side yeah, so they're kind of, they're this triangle that's over to the left side of that triangle.
Speaker 1:Okay, right inside, right next to the power, because in between speed and strength is power right and so, and obviously, like I have this for you, but it's like it's an actual diagram.
Speaker 2:He just showed me a. What would you even call that? It's not a pie chart, that's a triangle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we got the triangle right. And then it breaks down like as you work towards speed, as you work towards endurance, as you go from speed to endurance, like what those terms actually are. It's a lot of science so I'm not even going to get into it. We'll just keep it firefighter friendly right so hey, we know that in between speed and strength is power. But my point is is like what shape are you so the marathon runner? Right, marathon runners got to be fast, but they're endurance athletes oh yeah absolutely so.
Speaker 1:When you think about that, it's like okay, well, what shape are they in this big triangle? Right, so they're heavy on the bottom of that triangle they're on the bottom right between that and the endurance and that speed yeah, so I kind of gave and maybe I give them like a, you know, like a rectangle or a parallelogram down at the bottom right I got you they're, they're speed right. So where's firefighting right?
Speaker 1:firefighting is I would say more what strength and endurance right we're not actually the data right, yeah, the data was suggested police, fire, military. Okay, we're actually the circle in the middle and when you think about it like this is okay. So your basketball players right, what are their work cycles when you think about that? Or what are football players their longest snap? What is it? 30 seconds?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then they get a minute, minute and a half rest right. Okay, Play, clock this that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hockey's a good example of that too. Like a minute of solid work and then they're gone.
Speaker 1:Right, right. So, and then you only playing for how long? 60 minutes, 90 minutes, you know, whatever, whatever their game is Right. And then they get to go home and do whatever yeah.
Speaker 2:True.
Speaker 1:So, but taking into account. So then, what are they doing in their work cycles, like? And so, with that said, you know firefighting, right, like they have found out through the research, right, and the NSCA did a really good job with this years ago and they, they started noticing, as they were doing research on our population, right Like they created what they call T-SAC, which is tactical strength and conditioning. So they kind of started like they go hey, these guys are kind of special, we're going to actually pull them out of the normal athlete, you know, because we like to be called athletes right yeah.
Speaker 2:Industrial athletes.
Speaker 1:Right Industry. So I have a problem with that, but we'll get to that later.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I can't wait to hear it.
Speaker 1:You pull that out, and they pulled them out and they go we're going to do research just on these guys, right? And so, um, yeah, what they found out is like hey, you're the circle in the middle, right, you think about how long does it take to turn out?
Speaker 2:Okay, right, 60 to a minute and a half, you know, depending on your turnouts, your pack all the other stuff, your proficiency right, yep, so turnout times less than a minute let's say right Taking a plug. Right.
Speaker 1:A minute and a half right.
Speaker 2:If you're good yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, then you're. Then you're stretching hose Right, right, you're forcing a door. That's power exercise.
Speaker 2:Right yeah absolutely Right.
Speaker 1:Okay, then you're searching.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:You're on all fours, you're, you're, you're being fast, you're working on speed. Right, seconds matter, okay. Then you're what? Maybe, after you get the fires out, you get put up, put out the fire, maybe rescue a victim? I'm not even talking about rescuing a victim yet, you know, okay. So we're just saying you got an all clear. Now you're pulling ceiling. Yeah, you're doing it for 20 minutes, right? But it's last 20 minutes, if you're in good shape.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right, yeah, 10 to 20 times three on a good worker?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely 24 hours. How many times you get a couple of workers and I've had a couple of you know, three fire shifts, you know. I mean that happens where we work, you know, and so and more so, back east, right, those guys are running more than that, right, you know, you hear the stories, right, and so you think about that. It's like, how do you train for that, right, you know, like, those are a lot of different work cycles all over this triangle, and so I think that the thought process, and maybe, like, where I try to get across to when we talk, when we start talking about fitness, is, if we understand that we're the circle in the middle, right, that the research suggests this, then why, like, what makes the fire service great?
Speaker 1:And I have another side, tangent what makes the fire service great is we have people all over this triangle, right, we have the strongest of the strong, we have iron man guys and we got the ufc fighters that can go. You are fast, and that's what makes us great. We're big, tall, all all the way around, right. But if we can accept the idea, or understand the idea rather, that we are the circle in the middle and that we need to maybe move towards that right when we're talking about for the job, right, like you know, then I think we're going to become better in the fire service, if you will.
Speaker 1:Because, because, really, like you know and this will get me on a tangent is your fitness isn't about you anymore. Like when you, if you want to be stronger, you want to be faster, this and that, like you know, when you, when you weren't on the job, like, and you're back playing sport, it's all about you, know, it's whatever you want to do, bro, but the moment you took the oath, your fitness ain't about you anymore, it's about mr and mrs smith yeah, you know, and who else that crew?
Speaker 1:right, right, your boys yeah, you know, so like and, and I love this quote. And there's, I think it's John Sulka, right? Don't know the guy, but I borrowed a quote from him.
Speaker 2:Is it a fireman or outside?
Speaker 1:So this is off of, like it's called, firefighter Fitness. Okay, I think it's an Instagram, but the time it takes for us to gear up, turnout, respond, stretch line, start searching is not ours. It belongs to the folks waiting for us to perform. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:and it's like, of course, like and that, and totally aligned with the, with the um, the little snippet you played right, seconds matter, yeah, but like, okay, yeah, we can trim seconds with you know, you know hose loads and training and things like that. But, dude, if you're not in shape, if you're not in shape, then none of that matters. Dude, if you're going down, if you can only go 30 seconds and you're smoked, then it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:You can have all the head knowledge in the world, dude, and if you're not there, like and that's the thing, it's like the chicken or the egg, you know what came first, type of thing it's like. So I and I sound very passionate about it, but I think, like I think we fool ourselves a little bit. What gets in the way?
Speaker 1:pride a little bit, I think you know, but I think the again to take it outside of personal opinion and things like that the research suggests hey, man, we're the circle in that middle, and if you want to be better at this job or you want perform at a higher level when it comes to the occupation, you should strive towards the circle in the middle, right. And so what does that look like for you? For me, I knew I, coming into the fire service, I was more of a power athlete, so I had to kind of work my way to more towards the endurance side of things. Man. You know, my first time putting on turnouts whoop my ass yeah it whoops, your ass yeah, I think everyone can.
Speaker 2:Everyone can go back to the day they put turnouts on and did try to do a skills course or even just a training evolution with the guys. Right, realizing that shit, I can't cool down. Man, this is, yeah, it's not heavy, right, but I'm not used to the different weight or the movement or the lack of movement, right, right, you know. So now we're using muscles that we're not used to when we're doing something overhead because we can't fully extend our arms.
Speaker 1:Now, yeah, yeah, that kind of stuff right, no, and and and that's it like um and so it's a humbling thing. You know, when you start breaking down what it looks like for firefighters to perform their job, like there, there are multiple aspects. You know, there is power involved, there is endurance involved, there is speed involved. We understand that and that's why I think it encompasses that Right and there and so, um, I'm not. You know, like, there's a lot of myths that you know, when you start talking about functional fitness and things like that, right, so the data suggests and I'll just say this upfront functional fitness is required, like is good for the fire service.
Speaker 1:A lot of times the you know the stigma is functional fitment, fitness, functional fitness equals CrossFit. That's not true, correct? Yeah, crossfit is a brand right Of circuit training. You know, they've created a great environment and, don't get me wrong, I've done crossfit workouts. I love guys, that crossfit, you know it's all those things.
Speaker 1:Strength training is just as important, right, the old school power lift guys, right, putting on the belt, lifting the weight, moving the 10. You know, hey, dude, it's important too. Both are important, both are functional. Yeah, and I think that's the thing. Both are functional. But it's like, okay, well, where are you on this triangle and what? Maybe do you need to adjust to right and so um, that's kind of that specificity that I'm talking about is like um, and then like also doing the job tasks right is is part of fitness, right, like that's why we do skills courses and a lot of people think it's just a workout, but it's also training, so you're like almost doing two things at once, you know yeah, absolutely, and like that's one of those things that the guys that say, hey, man, I can't get the guys out to train or whatever the scenario.
Speaker 2:It is like that's literally step one you put your gear on, throw a pack on, set up a little mini skills course on the back or the front apron, whatever your house allots right, and then just do it and and I know you can, you'll back me up on this you might not have anybody join you the first day or the second day or the third day, right, but I guarantee you, after probably about three or four weeks at the latest, there's gonna be guys joining you right right because you're gonna come in.
Speaker 2:You're gonna be smiles because you just kicked your own ass. You feel good, those endorphins are rushing right and then that's, that's contagious, everything's contagious. Negativity, laziness, is contagious, just like being proactive and and hence why this podcast even exists. You know it's to to inform guys and to keep the ones that are hungry and they want to be proactive and learn something. You know that's, uh, that's who we're catering to. Uh, dude, your knowledge base is freaking insane, right?
Speaker 2:There's a couple of things I really want to kind of spin back to before we move even any further on this. So when it, when it comes down to that pill or that excuse me pillar, that triangle right of triangle of fitness I just wrote a little note just because it's something that I personally struggle with and it's my own fault, because I hate it, I don't like it, it fucking hurts like hell. Where does that flexibility fit into that triangle we have talked about? And I'm literally drawing triangles right now. I got my strength on the top. I got my speed far left, endurance far right, know. So I got my strength on the top. I got my what? Speed far left, endurance far right. I got power in between strength and speed. So where, where do you put that flexibility?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So maybe to be a little bit more non-scientific, right, Like we're when we're talking about program design and like we're talking about the triangle I'm talking about as a movement analysis triangle, talking about the, the triangle I'm talking about is a movement analysis triangle. That's just the.
Speaker 1:how do we diagnose how these, uh, this, individual or this athlete you know what work cycles are they working in, you know, and how do we cause when you? You know, like when you do your lifting program, you know like you're kind of working in those percentage ranges, either to get stronger right, build more endurance, this and that, so that I guess that idea, that's what that triangle's for, right, when we start talking about how do we come up with a program for the resistance training and or the circuit training or functional fitness for them, Mobility kind of being part of that. It's a bullet point of physical wellness. Physical wellness, right going back to the pillars, it's like that is in itself part of the pillar but it's not necessarily part of the triangle. But it's important, right. And and you start looking at injury, career longevity, things like that, right, like we know that the fire service is a physically demanding job and so you know they have things like the functional movement screen maybe are neglected in our training.
Speaker 2:Right and and and don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1:Like I'm, I'm sitting here and you know I don't score a 21 out of 21 on the functional movement test but, it, it, it points in, reminds me, reminds me that, hey, I need to work on some core some hip flexors, you know some shoulders, shoulders, knees, backs, right, we talk about that all the time.
Speaker 1:We know that, we know the data, you know, and it's kind of the funny thing too is, we know the data, uh, because it's there's a ton of it out there. It's just where we kind of turn the blind eye to it because we get comfortable, right, right. But, um, you know, what I say is is, when it comes to mobility, it should be something that's been ongoing, you know, especially for us it's important, and if you want to have a long career, if you're not stretching, if you're not working on your mobility, then you're bound to get hurt. And so we utilize the tool, obviously, the functional movement screen for our recruits to kind of show them what they're walking in with. Right, we classify them, you know, and there's an old study that Tucson Fire did years ago and they used it for firefighter recruits and their fire department to just analyze risk of injury. Their intention was to improve flexibility, strength, stabilizing muscles, things like that. But they noticed that they had a 42% reduced injury rate over the 12-month period.
Speaker 2:That's freaking huge right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and just by utilizing the functional movement screen, right, so, and and to kind of get into the data, and I and I present this to our recruits too it's like hey, this isn't just some random test, like there's a lot of research on this stuff, right, I think it's the july 2022 t-sac report. So t-sac tactical strength conditioning they they started kind of doing their own little you know things that they would send out like journals, you know Now, is that fire service related or specific or no?
Speaker 2:That's across the fitness industry.
Speaker 1:It's so. It's a section of the NSCA, that is, fire, police, military specific Copy, just to clarify for the listeners police, military specific copy, just to clarify for the listeners.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, and, and I and I would challenge anybody like you, you know, uh, if you, if you're looking for just some data, look up the t-sac reports, perfect, look look up and see what they're. What are they studying, man? They're studying everything. They're studying 48, 96 sleep cycles, all this stuff, and it's just, it's good information, right? You know, fire engineering's, you know, if we look at that magazine all the time, right, and they even they're even talking about this stuff and they're doing their own stuff and it's like it's all coming together, but it's like, at what point are we going to start doing the stuff they're saying? Right?
Speaker 1:so yeah, yeah, it's always merely interesting to read and then be like okay yeah, so uh, they were just talking about firefighter recruits in this report and utilizing it and how it you know it informs these guys of like where they're at and their injury risk, right so what we do is we.
Speaker 1:They come in day one, hey, you get it, you get assessed. And I'm going to categorize you as green, yellow or red. Green being like, hey, you're good, right, like as far as functional functionality goes and mobility. Yellow is like hey, we could use some improvement. And red is like you are higher risk. If you're scoring lower than a 16 on a functional movement screen, you are at higher risk of injury. It's not saying you're going to get hurt, and that's the thing. It's not saying you're going to get hurt. You're just at higher risk, right.
Speaker 1:And then the big ones because we're again, we. It's a super demanding job and especially in the academy, you're, you're, you're going 14 weeks every day on the grinder doing it, you know. And so, um, and I think it behooves, you know us as captains and rtos and like, hey, what are you know? Maybe I have to keep an eye on this kid, maybe I have to teach them the fundamentals. So, and it's kind of funny, I've, you know, had a recent conversation. You know, I walked in a couple of academies ago and I go, I know how many of you have played an organized sport or have done some sort of like organized sport and or like official lifting program.
Speaker 2:And how many people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fifty recruits. Right, yeah, seven.
Speaker 2:What Wow Seven Dude.
Speaker 1:I was thinking you were going to say about 70% of the guys raised their hands and, like I think I'm a young guy on the job, I'm blessed to be a captain where I'm at. And what was the knock when I got hired A? They didn't know building construction, didn't used to do construction back when they were younger. Like the generational differences, well, here's ours. These guys don't know how to move. They don't know they've never played a sport. They don't know how to lift. They don't you know. So what are their body mechanics look like?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And so now we're talking injury time off the truck, you know, the list goes on, and so I think that's a reality that we need to look at is like these guys have never moved. You know, we have a different generation coming in where they've never done anything athletic before, and guess what? They're in a weird job for that. They got an uphill battle, and how are we teaching that? So that's kind of the part of that's why we do this screen right, to identify these individuals. Then we also do a relative strength assessment test, right, body weight stuff. You know, pull-ups, sit-ups, air squats, push-ups how many can you do? Where do you rate?
Speaker 1:This is a militaristic very. We're talking relative strength, not absolute strength. How much can they do? What does their endurance look like? We measure that and then it also falls into the category. Then we also, if they have self-reported absolute maxes, we take those into consideration too and then we group them together to get them in groups that are like, are similar functionality-wise, so that we can start building, because you know, in the academy and I'll get into that maybe later is you know, you have to, there's not a lot of time and there's not a lot of resources and all the other things that go on right. Lot of time and there's not a lot of resources and all the other things that go on right, we have to, you know, group them up and then we have to. We're doing a lot of group into uh, training things like that, and we only have an hour and a half with little to no equipment right, so we got to make the best with what we have, and that's probably one way to do that right, so that we can be.
Speaker 1:when we start to talk about aspects of training, we talk about like individualization, how do we, you know, for, uh, joe, blow, you know professional athlete.
Speaker 1:They get in the customized, you know, in workout program. We, we can't do that, right, right, but we, we can do our best to get them in groups. We can give them their functional movement screens. We are going to modify what we can based on that, right. So there's guys that we come in. I go you are not squatting with a barbell on your back, you are. You were starting with air squat, okay, and we're going to talk there and we're going to start there. And some guys, they've been lifting weights their whole life and I go, yeah, like I get it, you're, you're strong, right, but you're not functionally strong, gotcha right.
Speaker 1:And and let's tweak this so you don't blow a disc in five years yeah because you you got off of 48 or you got off of 24 and you go to the gym and you're like I'm gonna, I'm gonna lift heavy and you blow a disc because your form's messed up, right. So let's create that good foundation and that's kind of the idea of the cadre and what we do, but kind of reasons why, if that kind of answers what you're going on, I kind of went off on a tangent there.
Speaker 2:No, it's good. I'm glad you went off on a tangent because as you're talking, I'm just bro, I'm just writing down question after question after question after question, but before I kind of move on to that, you know, when you're talking about just their basic movements and the lack of knowledge, with this generation coming up, right, I mean, I challenge anyone that's listening to this right now, that's over the age of, I'd say, 28 or 29. Right, and you go to any sort of private or not privatized, but any sort of corporate style gym, mount sides, eos is gold. So you, you name it right, yeah, at a peak time and watch the young kids working out, and it's, it's I personally, um, yeah, I've been working out since high school, right, and obviously I've done wrong things. I've done right things. I've learned progress as I've gotten older in life, like we should. But it's, it's weird because I have this overwhelming desire sometimes and I'm not a personal trainer right To just stand up and say like, what the fuck are you doing? Can I, can I please help, because it's almost like painful to watch sometimes. So you know, I never even thought of that.
Speaker 2:Those, that generation is a generation, that they're in the gym because they're into fitness, right, and they're being influenced by whatever guy they follow on YouTube or something like that good or bad information, but it's all information, and then I even think about it. Then you're getting that individual as a brand new fire recruit, right, and basically as nice as possible, saying what the fuck are you doing? Right, I got to, I got to reteach you everything. Yeah, I mean it's huge, because the whole point of that fitness level and that functional fitness is, like you said, to prevent injury, right, and I'm sure it's a challenge for you to take that young alpha mindset, because I've been doing this.
Speaker 2:Hey, skip, I've been doing this already for four years. Like I went from squatting 135 pounds to 315 or 375 or whatever it works it's like. And like you said, bro, yeah, you've gotten stronger, right, but you're going to get to the point where you are going to hurt yourself severely, where it might even be career ending, which is bad for all of us. It's bad for the department they got hired for, it's bad for the individual you know it's it's it's bad for everybody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, and, and, and I'm, I'm living proof of that Right Like so, uh, to share a personal story like. I'm getting ready to graduate college. I'm done with my playing career.
Speaker 2:Okay, so 22, 23 years old.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I've. I'm finishing up my degree at ASU, I get an internship um with a company and I end up. You know I'm still lifting heavy. I'm still in my football days, if you will right dead lifting you know I'm throwing on weight. I feel a pop on my back, you know, and I'm like it inhibits me from working a little bit, like I'm getting shooting pain down to my foot, like it feels like I'm getting electrocuted.
Speaker 1:Thought for sure, I popped a disc, or you know what I mean blown disc type of thing, have super, uh, just that nerve pain and you know it when you get it right. And so I go everything kind of checks out on the mri, right, I do have a little bit of a protrusion down there, l5, s1. And so I'm doing rehab at the place that I work and one of the PTs just looks at me and so he's having me do some exercises and this and that, and he goes what are you doing? And I'm doing like a lat pulldown at this time and I'm like Super basic movement at this time, okay, and I'm like yeah, super basic movement, right.
Speaker 2:He's like stop doing.
Speaker 1:he's like you're, he's like you're weak, and he just tells me that he goes. You're weak and I go. What do you mean? Yeah, Fuck you buddy, I'm looking at him right the eyeball test. Of course, and dude, we do this in the fire service all the time. Right, we just go, whoa.
Speaker 2:We eye everybody up.
Speaker 1:It's the eyeball test Like what can you tell me that I already don't know? Yeah, so he tells me this he's like you're weak and like my form's bad. I'm leaning back, I'm overcompensating with other muscles and he flattens them out and he's like puts me in this posture, right, he's got you know. And it was kind of funny because he's like all right, he's using tools like PVC piping. He goes all right, now go. Yeah, I can't lift the weight.
Speaker 2:And I'm like he goes you're weak.
Speaker 1:I just started laughing because I'm like and he goes, garrett, he goes Garrett. You're strong, but you're not he's like. When it comes to your body position, you're overcompensating, and these are things that we've learned over time. So, when we talk about squat mechanics, right, and going back to my old football days in high school, right, hey, put the bar on your back, big chest, eyes up, get that curve, big old chest. Well, it's like. Well, no, you actually don't want to do that. Right, you're creating a disadvantage just before you even start. Right, and we can break that down.
Speaker 1:Um, and, we do that with our recruits, but, um and so, man, it took a year. So then, also, I was accompanied with a guy. Um, I owe him a ton of uh credit when it comes to even just how I've developed as a strength and conditioning specialist, right and um, even getting the fire service dave henderson, terry massey, those guys, um, they were huge helps of just helping me develop as a trainer, right and and getting me where I was. And, um, dave, one time, so I'm going through rehab and he goes all right, hey, he's like, I'm like, dude Dave, I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1:I go Bert's telling me I'm, I'm weak, I'm like it. So I walk in on saturday and he's like all right, and he's. I just see him. He's got his shoes and socks off, he's on a yoga mat, he's got a bandana on. He's like let's go hour-long stretch session right, hour-long like yoga style never. And you know like we had to do this in the degree program but like garrett lee didn't do yoga. You know what I'm saying yeah, for the girls.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, you're right, yeah, you know and so.
Speaker 1:But, dude, I'm telling you, when I got done with that steve, full shirt of sweat smoked legs shaking and dave goes. Garrett, that was embarrassing.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, no, he's just like dude. I love these guys talk like I talk man. I love the straight talk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he just straight up told me, and as a 22, 23-year-old kid, you're like Collegiate athlete at that too, you know, and you're like hey, like fuck. And at that point I'm like, because I was smoked, I'm like fuck, you're right, he's like, you will meet me here every Saturday and we will do this.
Speaker 2:And I did it. What a good dude.
Speaker 1:And no, and for sure, and he and I'm telling you mobility. So, coming back to mobility, right, yeah, I was so tight that my body wasn't, you know, like it wasn't necessarily like that I had this, like the injury was caused because of my lack of mobility. I had to realize that the hard way. And now, like and I try to tell this to people, it's like you don't want to be in, you don't want to have to take a year. And Dave told me he's like you will not deadlift for a year. Wow, but he's like I will, you will eventually do it.
Speaker 1:So we did a bunch of other things and to help create stabilizer muscles, right, work on core strength, all this stuff. And then, what is funny, because a year later, when I come back to deadlift, I didn't really lose that much, wow, right, because I strengthened everything around it, I worked on my mobility, my, my technique was better, my form was better. And then it's like, oh, my absolute strength didn't necessarily and it's going to diminish a little bit, right, like, if you're not lifting the weight, you got to lift the weight, right, but it came back fast. Yeah, it came back fast because the other things improved, right, and so that's a whole other thing with rehab and other things that you can get into, but mobility being the thing is like man.
Speaker 1:I had to learn that lesson the hard way and I think a lot of firefighters learn that the hard way and then sometimes you know it can be career ending right and you don't want those kind of things. How many guys have cages in their backs? You know how many? And and getting knee replacements, hip replacements and they're young yeah, it's very common.
Speaker 2:Now it's like 40 and under.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it's crazy and it's like if you don't, if you don't start early and you don't create that a habit, then you're never going to do it, dude, you're never going to do it right.
Speaker 2:So, um, when you, when you talk about habits, um, before I move on to my other question and this is something and this is honestly I'm just I'm being curious for myself so I've always been told, so tell me if this is bad information or kind of close I was always told if you do anything for 21 days in a row, it becomes a habit, right, so that would be something negative. Like smoking cigarettes, right, or drinking alcohol, but they, they related to exercising too. So, like for the, especially for the, the fireman that, say, has let his fitness level go. He's been on the job for 10 plus years and he is that guy that the best shape of his life was the day he graduated the academy. Um, is that a true statement or is that just kind of just things that people have said, like, what do you feel about that?
Speaker 2:When it comes down to, hey, embracing that suck, that a lot of guys will say until the point where you're like, because I know for me, I and I don't remember the timeline, but when it came down to training legs, like in high school, like it wasn't cool to train legs, like growing up in this generation. Now you go to the gym, everyone's got tree trunks, which is amazing, right, I think. But, um, I didn't start training legs till I became an adult, right? And then, of course, it's the same thing that everyone says. It's like that first couple times it hurts so bad, yeah, that it feels like your legs are broken, right, so you don't want to do it again. But it's one of those deals now where if I miss a session of a heavy squat day or something along those lines, I'm upset because now I thoroughly enjoy it, which was.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like your body craves it? It does, isn't?
Speaker 2:that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fascinating.
Speaker 2:To where, for me, if I miss, just, let's just not even go about muscle group, let's just say missing, uh, or neglecting my physical fitness for a period of time.
Speaker 2:Like, and prime example, a couple months ago I moved and there was probably a good solid three, almost four weeks where I was lucky to get a workout in at the, at the house, right at the station um, but man, that wasn't my priority. Life was crazy. I mean, it happens to everybody, right, but the entire time my anxiety level was higher, like, and obviously I understand I'm moving too, but I didn't feel as good I'm, I'm, I'm more tired easily, and it's like and I'm just, you know, just, hey, it's a move, I'm stressed, everything else, but sure, shit, the day I get back and say, okay, you know what, no more excuses, the house can wait, i'm'm gonna hit the gym, make that priority again and start back on my regimen, and all of a sudden, all those that anxiety went away, those extra stresses went away, like I started feeling good, my body hurt less, you know, which is crazy. But like, do you think there's for that, for those guys that are trying to get back into, is there a time frame?
Speaker 1:they're like bro, just stick it out, you know yeah, I, I think the 21 days would be great. I mean, there's, like you see that a lot and there's there's data to back that up. Right, like, I think it's. It's. It's the hard part of any of your. What are you creating?
Speaker 1:discipline, you know things like that it's like anything else too, like, and that, and the reason I asked you is, like your body crave it, because eventually, like it's like you're feeding what are you feeding, you know, like you have to, you know, and not to make it a spiritual thing do, but it's like man, it's a discipline man, and the more you do it and then you create that habit, then when you after that you know, know, period of time, and you've created that discipline, when you go without it, you crave it.
Speaker 1:Right, and I think you see that so much in the fitness side of things, like when you push past the, the hurt your body, the, the human body is so amazing when you start breaking it down on how its ability to adapt, you know, and um, to its environment and like what you're creating. So, man, like, I think, um, you know, in short, is, yeah, that's a good place, but here's, here's, I think, the obstacle that people run into. They go too hard, too fast and you're, and you're not honest with yourself where you're at, like, hey, it doesn't, you can't eat the whole chocolate bar in one sitting, you're gonna get sick. Yeah, you gotta take a bite size hey bro.
Speaker 2:I benched 315 when I was a senior in high school. Now I'm 43 so I'm gonna warm up with uh, probably 275, right, that makes sense, right, and you're gonna blow your pack exactly.
Speaker 1:So it's like, hey, if you haven't done anything in a while, just start with the basics, you're still gonna get the endorphin release, you're still gonna get those things.
Speaker 1:It's not gonna be, and, and it's okay, you know, you're, and, and when you know whether it's setting things up at the station, setting things, you don't have to be a fitness expert to to do these things either right, like, um, but just being any, any sort of any sort of activity level, any things, like that, you're, you're getting better.
Speaker 1:I try to tell guys that, like you know, um, when I'm setting up stuff at the station, like, hey, just get out there and do what you can, because, guess what, you're getting better, no matter what you do. If you go around and you do one rep on every single, it's more reps than you did yesterday, right, and it's that simple. Like you can break it down that simple for guys. You know, and really it's like the next day, try to do two, try to do three, the next day, you know, and then eventually it becomes habitual, right, and then I think truthfully, like your hunger, your body craves it, and it's going to crave more and more and more over time and then you're going to be able to eat that whole candy bar, if you will.
Speaker 2:Right For the you know analogy speaking, so I think no, I mean, that's really good too, and especially when it comes down to on the job fitness wise and I'm curious on what you think about this, because this is what I've used in uh crews I've worked with before um, I'm like, hey, let's, let's do a skilly uh benefit of being in the department I'm in right now is that a lot of guys do prioritize their physical fitness for the most part. So it's not as much of a kickback or argument that maybe lot of guys do prioritize their physical fitness for the most part. So it's not as much of a kickback or argument that maybe some of you guys are going to come across. But if you can get your crew out there and to kind of minimize that anxiety, I love to pack out and do it on air, because then that is the quit point. You know, it's like, hey, we're going to work and do this event, right, whatever we choose to set up until we're out of air.
Speaker 2:Right, and that might be five or 10 minutes for one guy, right, it might be 25 or 30 minutes to the other guy, but to me I like that because it's not more than they can handle, because when they're out of air, they're out of air because that's what they suck down. They're going to be exhausted, right. And then at the same time, they have a regimen of saying, hey, it took me 10 minutes to breathe down my bottle doing this skills course. So next week when I do it again, or next shift, or whatever that you know how, how motivated they might be. It's like, hey, I'm going to try to go for one more minute, right. Or even like your air management is good and you went through six rounds, right? Hey, next time I'm going to try to do six and a half rounds, or or maybe maybe I can really step it up and do that seventh round or whatever.
Speaker 2:So, like what do you think of when it, especially when it relates to the fire service? Like, like you agree with that. Do you have a better idea when it comes down to? Like, especially that crew makeup where you you might not say walking in that morning besides doing your normal walk around, like, hey, who's on the knob right? Or hey, who's cutting today? Who's sounding? You know your morning talks like not knowing their fitness level. How would you attack that? But everyone's willing to work out that day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think you know that touches on a couple things Like what's your plan as a company officer, right, right, right, I think I have goals that I come in like hey, we're going to do some sort of physical activity, we're going to eat together as a crew, we're going to eat something healthy, we're gonna make a healthy choice is what I say, you know. And then we're going to do some sort of training. Right, those, those are my goals. Yep, a lot of times and it's funny you talk about skills courses and that's a sensitive subject, you know, depending on where you're at, and, um, I've gotten a lot of flack for that in the past. Um, because I think part of it's the lack of understanding you know, um, I think part of it too is, you know, um, guys that are passionate about stuff like that, and maybe guys, some guys aren't, and so, not to necessarily get into that, but I think I mean so without throwing shade right, because that's not what we're about, right?
Speaker 2:so you know, generalized, very generalized, please, just like what? What is the biggest pushback you got from that? Because he says it's a sensitive subject.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and I think it's a very valid pushback is we don't want guys to go down.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, right, right and and and in the environment you work in, right. So you're you're fighting fire in 120 plus degrees some days, correct?
Speaker 1:correct. Okay, and so it's it's. You know it's hot, it's summers like they start in, you know, april if you will, but may, june, july, august, september. It doesn't start cooling down here until late october right, it's probably still 90 in october.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes, and that's that's comfortable, right, right and I'm like, oh, it's only 100, that's pretty good, you know, but um is, you know, the biggest pushback is, hey, we don't want guys to go down, and I and I get that, and as a company officer you have to be aware of those things, and it's very valid concern, right, like I do not know this guy's fitness level, and if we get three fires in a shift and you go down like then that's you know and it's valid because you, you are responsible as a company officer.
Speaker 2:You are responsible for that backstep guy 100 and and that includes his fitness level and what you, you know, do or quote unquote, not mandatory, right. But what your expectations are that morning to knock out, yeah, outside of the you know 15 medicals and then, freaking, hopefully a job to end the shift out, right, that's a busy, freaking day, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and what did they? What did they come in the door with?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, did they go out last night no-transcript pet peeves.
Speaker 1:Like, hey, are you coming to work, um, fueled and ready to go, hydrated, you know? Like, if you're not, then you're already behind the eight ball, because if we just get a fire and you go down, well, then that's unacceptable. Yeah, right, like um, because that's part of the job, so there, so there is that line to walk right. Like, hey, I don't want you to go down, but you, you need to be able to perform and you, and my expectation is, it doesn't matter how many calls we get, you're gonna you to, you're not going to go down on that. And if you are, then we have to evaluate some things. What's going on.
Speaker 1:However, I still believe in the in the fact of like, so, as a company officer, you have to evaluate like, hey, I don't know their physical abilities, but I need to figure it out. You know, I think you need to know your guys, right, you need to know and that and you can get into a leadership side of that. But doing skills courses is important, right, it's functional, it's, it's specific to the job. That's specificity of what we're talking about. But I also think it is training, you know, you, and here's, here's kind of my reasoning is okay, what's the number? You know what's the first thing that happens in mayday scenarios. What do guys do? They take off their gloves, they take off their mask.
Speaker 1:Right, you know um they panic, you know and they're because they're uncomfortable, they're hot, they, you know, and so, just having firefighter gloves on, you don't even have to be in the rest of the gear. I tell guys this too like hey, you're, you don't want to do a skillet? Cool, will you work out with us? Will you do some? Will you do the exercises outside of your gear?
Speaker 2:Put your gloves on. Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1:Put your gloves on? Yeah, cause the first thing you're going to do in the, in that scenario when you're panicking and you're trying to transfill or you're trying to rescue something you're, you're going to take off your gloves, yeah, but how comfortable are you in that? So there's training in just just the bare minimum of dexterity that comes with doing that. Then you talk about you know, hey, in those skills courses are we doing things that are, um, like job tasks, throwing ladders. I love throwing ladders in my. That is like a lost art of like. You see some of these guys, you know some guys on the scene and you're like, what are you doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know, you, you know yeah, throwing a 24, like it's a 16 or 14 or vice versa, or just like, or just struggling, struggling so bad where you're like oh my goodness, right, and that's a technique thing, right it is.
Speaker 1:And and thing. Right it is. I mean, and, and there are standards, like you need to be able to do this and so, but let's, let's train on it. Yeah, hey, let's pull the hose, let's, let's, let's do the attack over supply. Let's do. Let's, let's practice the shoulder load in our skills course. Yeah, let's, let's focus on our forcible entry and swinging our sledge. And do you know? Um, you know, doing some rope ties, right, practicing wrapping up a dummy. Close your eyes. Yeah, you know, it's humbling like guys laugh at me when we do some things towards the end, because I'll always end the skills course a little early. I'll go. All right, how much air do you got? All right, transfill me. Yep, close your eyeshmm and I go. You just did a skills course, you know, because, like one of my little tips and maybe you could take this, I get them down to 1,000. Okay, psi, mm-hmm, I go all right.
Speaker 1:So bells, ringing Bells are ringing, right, I go, all right, give me 20 sledges on each side, okay, how much it costs you? Then we go. And then I go all right, take this equipment. You know, do an equipment, run farmer's carry, how much it costs you. Okay, how much this got gonna get him down to 500, okay. And then I go, all right, transfer me, get on your knees, just close your eyes, I'm right here, you found him. He just says, hey, give him air. Your captain says give him air, takes him. They're sucking their face. Yeah, they have. They have to unclick. I go which one was harder, the five exercises you did before, in 500 or just sitting down and and transferring? I go. This is what we're talking about Creating that uncomfortable environment, what is? And then you start talking about air management, right, and I think that's a good point. When it comes to skills courses and and having that idea of taking those mental snapshots, I mean this is all training, but we're doing physical activity.
Speaker 2:Isn't that crazy.
Speaker 1:You know, and so, and and I tell guys this too Don't be suffocating yourself when you're doing these skills courses. Like just because you're last on bells doesn't mean you're in the worst shape or the first on bells.
Speaker 2:Sorry.
Speaker 1:First on bells doesn't mean you're in the worst shape. Yeah, because I'll tell you right now I'm going balls to the wall. Yeah, the whole fucking time. Why? Because I'm trying to make my body better at utilizing oxygen. So in the moment I need to conserve, I can slow down, yeah, right, and then teaching that right, and so um, and that's you know. To kind of come back full circle on, you know the hot topics of skills courses, like I think you're getting those things. I think the pushback is, hey, we don't want guys to go down, and that's totally valid. But you know what's the remedial training for someone that goes down on a fire?
Speaker 1:right, there is not well well, put them in their turnouts yeah make them comfortable in that scenario so that they're not over. You know, get in comfortable, especially here, right, it's about being hot, they get hot, they get overheated. You know, body temp starts to rise, you're over. You're cooking 104. You're like, oh, you know you're pouring water down here, but it's like I gotta get comfortable in that when I'm at 103, 102. You need to get in your stuff. We've seen it and I'm sure you've seen it Guys look like they're in great shape.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's different when you put them in.
Speaker 1:They're the most to go down. That's the part of the specificity, if you will, of just being in your gear, knowing you know, feeling comfortable in your gear, being able to perform and do the tasks You're going to get caught right, like there's days that the bear gets you. I say that to guys like, hey, man, you're going to come in, you're going to do a skill and it's just going to get you OK. We need to focus on recovering and stuff like that. And sometimes, maybe as a company officer, like we might go out of service, we're training, we go out of service to train and pull a hose line behind Walmart all the time, right, but we're not willing to do that for this.
Speaker 1:So if we need to do that for the crew or whatever, then maybe that's a priority, right, maybe this is a priority, you know, and that's up to the company officer and know and know your guys right, and so, yeah, the pushback's there, but I there's no other validity is like I just don't want them to go down like there's there's nothing else really behind that and it's. And really, if we, if we're looking in the mirror, what's it's, you know, what do we struggle with? We struggle as firefighters, like and this is probably another deep conversation is we struggle with comparing, struggle with pride? Yep, right, and it's just like it's like anything else man like, just let it go like it's. And this is kind of like when we talk about the fools and things like that. It's like we got guys that there's no egos here, right, there's no egos and and fitness is one of those ego-driven things like hey man, I can lift more than you, I can bench more than you.
Speaker 1:And it's like no, it's not about that. I'm, I'm here to be the circle in the middle, if you will. I'm here, I'm moving in that direction. And I think, guys, and and how do I create that as a uh, as a company officer is like hey, I, I, I praise that. Hey man, you're out, yeah, yeah, fuck, yeah, you know it doesn't matter, you can't do this or that or compare whatever. It's like hey man, you're out here getting better. And I think that's what it's all about.
Speaker 2:Right, Hell, yeah, all right. Well, listen, we've been talking for a long time, but there's three more things. That and then, on top of whatever you want to add in here, that I got to touch on Right. So how do you feel? Well, I already know your answer to this, right, but I just really want to just say it at this point because hopefully it resonates with somebody, every single person listening to this right now, right, that is on the job knows how important, but really understands the consequences of when we get on that rig and we don't wear a fucking seatbelt.
Speaker 2:Right, there's no departments left in the country that I guarantee in their SOPs, sogs, memos, whatever you guys call it right, there is a seatbelt policy in there somewhere saying that when you are responding, you will have a seatbelt on right. So, every department across the country, that's a big deal. To me, it's crazy, because the likelihood of getting into an accident not wearing my seatbelt and then I'm ejected and I perish because of that right, which is a real thing. And I'm saying seatbelts are thoroughly important. You should wear them every single time.
Speaker 2:But what I'm trying to harp on is I wish the departments took fitness as important as seatbelts, right, that's something that they have mandated you will do every time you're on the rink. So why do these departments do not say when you go to work, you will go out of service at a certain time, depending on staffing your battalion, whatever it is Not, if you get a chance to, you will go out of service, work on functional fitness for X amount of time and then you're back in service like that's yeah, so weird to me because again we kill more firemen because of the lack of fitness right, and that can come between diet, cardiac right on the job stuff just just going down, like you said, going down inside a working fire, right?
Speaker 2:and then how many of your brothers and sisters are you now putting at risk because they're coming to fucking get you?
Speaker 2:yeah you know. So like that's one thing. I remember I got into it, um, with the lieutenant. Um, I was a lieutenant at the time also, but he was one of those guys where he was just the the, the exact polar opposite of what the guy would want to show up to my house. He was overweight, he had a bad attitude. You can never convince him of anything else and I would tell him straight out, especially as we were equals, because then there was, I wasn't worried about him coming after me, but it was one of those things where I told him I said you know what? I don't care and this is just my opinion I don't care what the fuck you do to your body, how many Big Macs you eat, everything else. I said what I care about is if we get a job and you go down and I have to come get you if I can't make it out. I said I like your family, right, but more importantly, if you keep me from mine, I'm going to be pissed the fuck off at you.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Because that is your choice and your responsibility. And you put us, as your brothers quote, unquote brothers and sisters at that risk because you chose to live that lifestyle. That's what, again, personal opinion, soapbox, right. That's what frustrates me. And for the guys out there that are doing the right thing and trying to change, they're like, you should be angry at these guys Because again, it's putting you at risk, your individual, your family, your well-being.
Speaker 2:I mean, you name it right, yeah, so that's, and I think if you start putting it and putting the responsibility on some of the members, it might hit home. They might tell you to fuck off, right, whatever you know, yeah, nothing changed, right, but at least you get to the point where it might resonate a little bit and say, shit, you know, like, because we could be friends and I can go to a really good friend of mine and shame on me if I don't and say, bro, you got to drop some pounds, man, but I'm not going to tell you that as a shameful thing and be like I'm going to present it differently. Hey, dude, we get off shift tomorrow morning. I'm going to go wherever you know. Name, big name, jim, come with me real quick.
Speaker 2:I want to show you this new exercise. You know, wink right that I just learned to get them in there with me. That's how, that's how you approach those situations. But look out for your boys and girls on the job, you know, because it doesn't just affect them, right, it affects you too. You could be the biggest stud in the world and you might have a really bad day because they went down and you might not be able to get them out.
Speaker 1:And I hope you get out, but you might not too. You know that's scary, yeah, if you think of it. Yeah, no, and I mean you, you talk about a lot of things and I think that's interesting. You could probably have your own podcast episode of how to have those kinds of conversations, right, you know. But I think, going back to what you said, is the standards. Standards, like you know, we, the IFF Right, if you will, yep Right, the wellness fitness initiative literally says management and labor shall work together to provide a comprehensive fitness and injury prevention program. Not every department has that, right, right, and how robust is that? How do you create that? You know? And for the guys that are out there doing it, like you know, the, the adage water boils from the bottom up, type of thing, you know, yeah, but if it's not getting funded, you know like it's tough, it's hard.
Speaker 2:Oh, you can boil. You boil that water all day long, right, put a. Put a pot of water on your freaking stove, turn it on high, right, and walk away from it and never fill that water back up. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's what happens it evaporates, yeah it evaporates.
Speaker 2:It's gone right. So you're right If upper management is not supporting your department, right, you're going to run out of that water and you can. So, um, but you know like we talk about 1583, 1582,.
Speaker 1:Right, Like the standards, like we are held to the standard. You have to meet your 12 Mets on the treadmill test, Right, you know um or bike tests, now you know, but like that and and somehow we find ways around that too.
Speaker 1:Right, but those things should be concreted you know, and um, you know, and I can sit and we can sit here and break that down, but it's like those are standards, you know, and you know it's funny because like, the more you get into um, the science, right, Like there's research out there that's saying there's minimum strength standards. Yeah, you know, and we've kind of like bypassed that stuff with the c-pads yeah and hey.
Speaker 2:Can you lift 50 pounds?
Speaker 1:you know that's the bare bare minimum but I mean, I'm looking at a research from the uk, right, euro helmets, but still they're saying like, hey, shoulder, press over 35 kilos, like that is a standard for to be able to like there there's research to say that that's the minimum standard, like you have to be able to do that to work on the job. Like we don't have those here in the american fire service, like, and I don't think I don't know if they've adapted that, I honestly don't know. Okay, but there, uh, there was research done in that sense through them, so maybe they volunteered for that to like figure it out right, um, but uh, there's other things like that where it's like, you know, should there be?
Speaker 1:I don't know you know, um, I'm not again. I'm not all about drawing hard lines in the sand because I just want you know, I think the the better focus is like, hey, man, how do we improve you? Like, how do we accomplish both? Like, hey, you are here to for mr and mrs smith, but you're also gonna benefit too by giving yourself up in this scenario.
Speaker 1:Like your fitness, you're gonna benefit too, like that's like a golden rule thing, depending on how where you want to go, right oh yeah, like you kind of um, it's better to give than receive type of thing and you're gonna get something out of it, man and and um. So I mean, you know what is the fitness or wellness fitness initiative, say? Or 1582 all uniformed personnel shall participate in a mandatory annual, non-punitive and confidential or a confidential fitness assessment. Compromising of both components body comp, aerobic capacity, power, muscular strength, endurance, mobility and flexibility.
Speaker 2:They have to maximal exercise tolerance of at least 12 minutes, like no exceptions, dude, yeah, and if not, you're not on a fire truck, like that's my opinion yeah, you know, and I mean you're gonna have the naysayers and and and I I would be one of those when it comes down to nfpa as a whole, right, because you're gonna have those guys. Garrett, that's a guideline brother, right you yeah, yeah, and it's in the fire services.
Speaker 2:They, we love NFPA so much because we pick and choose for our department exactly what we want and everything else is blasphemy, right? Um, but really, what Garrett's trying to say and please correct me if I'm wrong right, it is already spelled out for us by really smart dudes, right, that are looking out for us on a safety side, and with the physical fitness, I don't believe there's such a thing as being too safe when it comes down to the physical fitness side of it. Right, because the better you get at those body movements, the more precise you are. Whatever you know, you become more flexible, you become stronger you, you become better at the job as a whole and then, more importantly, healthier, just in life. You know you're a better dad or mom or or whatever husband, and freaking I mean you, you name it across the board.
Speaker 1:But is it worth your life like that's?
Speaker 2:I mean, you can boil it down to that yeah, because, because goggles on top of my helmet doesn't change right the outlook on my life, you know by me, but that's an nfpa I I might be knocking goggles, right, but, but I mean just to go with the point you know. So, yes, we understand that fpa is a guideline, right, but man, what a good resource to say, hey, this is a good stepping stone, right.
Speaker 2:And hey we might need to alter it a little bit. Maybe I hate lowering right but we could alter it a little bit. Maybe I hate lowering right but we could alter it a little bit until we can get the guys up to speed to meet that. That could be our five-year goal as a department.
Speaker 1:I don't know sure no, and and like, even from my standpoint, like there's could be a lot more research. You're talking about specificity too, like and hey, uh, job roles yeah as a backstep and as a company officer. My roles are different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know physically, mentally, emotionally, everything across the board to a point, right.
Speaker 1:So maybe like, what does that look like as far as a minimum fitness standard? But at the end of the day, we still have. Like, how many meds does it cost to do a search and rescue? It's more than 12. Yeah, oh yeah, it's more than 12.
Speaker 2:So the the I want to say correct me if I'm wrong, is it because I want to say I nerded out one day and I think I read it was it 16? Yeah, it's okay, yeah, and which is really high? I was 14 or maybe.
Speaker 1:You're probably right 14 to 16, I would, I'll, we'll, we'll put it there. It's more than 12, you know. And so, that being said, it's like okay, well then, that goes across the board. It doesn't matter rank, but I definitely see that argument. And then, as you get older and we age right, like hey, are they unable to run on the treadmill because of their knee replacement, back cage, whatever? Can we test that cardiovascular strength, you know? Like, yeah, they can turn it on when they need to, which I hope to God but like cardiovascular, they're not going to code, right, that's the number. One thing is like that kills firemen. Cardiac, it's cardiac right.
Speaker 1:And so, and then, like you think about this, like and I'm going to throw some more stats at you right O, more stats at you right over exertion strain leading cause of fire related injuries at 25, an estimated 81 000 firefighters injured occurred annually in the united states. 49 of firefighters injuries occurred on the fire ground. That's flip a coin, dude, you're getting hurt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, on the fire you get to the job and it's a 50 50 shot if you're gonna walk away uninjured yeah that's insane.
Speaker 1:Like I hope that soaks in the guys yeah, and then 52 of those are strain sprains and and or muscular injuries. So it's like what is that saying? You know, and, and, um, we, and we all know, like we've heard it I don't know how many times ingrained to us Cardiovascular disease, take care of your bodies, whatever it's going to kill us. You're like the cardiovascular, through the cancer and all those things like, well, what are you doing to, to to slow that process? Like if we all want to admit like, hey, eventually we're all going to get cancer one day. You know the exposures, you, we can't control that, but I can do stuff to help myself. Right, I can slow that process or I can, um, combat that with physical fitness and wellness.
Speaker 2:You, know and addressing those. Yeah, like you were saying too, it's like if I am the best shape of my life and god forbid knock on wood right I come down with some sort of occupational cancer. My chances, I'm assuming right because I am in good physical shape. A battle in that cancer is most likely higher than the average joe, right right?
Speaker 1:no, and I think you know there's plenty of data to support that. Like, hey, people that come into or a diagnosis of have higher outcomes. You know, not always Right, but um, you know, we saw that with COVID you know, and then that wasn't even.
Speaker 1:You know. You could say whatever you want about COVID but like, guys that were in better shape typically dealt better with COVID. You know, at least in our department I will say that. Right, you know um, you know, you know, I think like and it affects everybody different, but I think overall, like you know um, the majority dealt or were able to handle it a little bounce back a little bit better, faster or whatever all right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, didn't get as sick. Was able to get back on the truck quicker, but but everything else. So two more things before we we close this out here.
Speaker 1:If I could, you know, go ahead Going back to the stats because, like, we could talk about illness and that's, you know. But you know, thinking about the injuries on the fire ground, right? So half of them, or close to half right 49. On the fire ground. Then half of those are strains and stuff over exertion. The half right, 49. On the fire ground, then half of those are strains and stuff Overexertion. The cost, right?
Speaker 1:So poor muscular strength, lack of mobility and muscular control is essential for improving overall health and wellness while decreasing potential risk injury.
Speaker 1:So, like, it is related to poor movement patterns, you know, and I have this slide here for the recruits and to show them like, hey, if you're not moving, well, it doesn't matter. Like you're, you know, you're going to get hurt and it's going to be related to how you move. So if we're not fixing how you move and you're not able to move and you're overexerted, at that time you're, I mean, flip a coin, you might get hurt. Like I mean, just think of it like that simple, like OK, then, and then what's that look like to get back, just to back to where you were. That's a long process, right? Oh yeah, depending on the injury, you know, and then to get better from that point you know. So why don't we start now, you know, and the moment they walk in the door and that's kind of what we do with the cadre, you know too is is kind of hammer, that like, hey, this is a good foundation for you to start going back like these kids and I say kids, these recruits yeah, 18 to 35 years old.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're not, you know um, they, they could be coming in having zero experience and not knowing how to move, not knowing anything, anything, and it's like, well, maybe they don't know what to do and they're just unwilling to admit it. So we're going to try to teach them and give them something to at least again increase mobility. We're going to focus their career longevity Right and then how to how to maintain the strength that they have, you know, and those are kind of our goals, where we help them out at the academy level, the recruit level, so that they can take that out to their departments, you know, and utilize that, some of the stuff that they learned, and hopefully spread the news, you know, and get guys active.
Speaker 2:And that's good too, because the training the okay. So it's a fitness cadre, so I call it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can call it that Okay.
Speaker 2:So you know your fitness cadre. The thing that I want to make sure everyone understands is Garrett's got the opportunity because the academy that he teaches this at is multi-agency, so different cities, right, counties, however you want to call it, or whatever. So that's what he's talking about being able to spread that throughout the state, which is a great opportunity, so they could take it back to some larger departments, some smaller departments or whatever the case might be, and start teaching, because I mean it's, you're absolutely correct. Sometimes those recruits come out in certain areas as the subject matter expert, because it is typically the latest and greatest and they just learn how to do it, compared to the guy that has either never been taught that or was shown that once, who knows how, how many years ago, right?
Speaker 1:right, no, and, and you know um, this hasn't always been a thing.
Speaker 2:You know it's been something that's kind of fairly new.
Speaker 1:It's taken years to get to where this has been a thing Right and and we are blessed as a cadre to be able to do this for multiple organizations. It couldn't be done without the cadre itself, like we have so many good members that are super knowledgeable and and contribute to that.
Speaker 2:It's that team.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, I mean, and so, um, luckily, uh, we've been blessed to and supported in that um in the in the last uh few years here so that we can do that, and I think the benefits are going to pay off and, like they already are, like um, like um, both the feedback coming back like, hey, thank you so much, we really enjoyed that. Uh, we do this.
Speaker 1:now, you know, um, you run into them on the streets because, like, where we work too, like we run with these guys we don't have borders right, the mutual aid system that we do, and and you, you see them on calls it's the automatic aid system yep, and so um, and so we, you know, you see them down the road and they're like, hey, yeah, I'm still doing that and this and that, and so it's cool, it's it's, it's rewarding in that sense, and it's like, hey, man, keep it up, you know, so it's cool. Yeah, I think that's the reward.
Speaker 2:No dude, a hundred percent here, then it's a. To save time, I'll I'll go down before we answer the questions for season one. Just the last thing I really want to talk on, and it's only because we've talked a lot of this initiative and being able to influence a cruise and everything else, and we've talked a lot about that right front seat, Right. So majority, right, majority of guys listen to this because the majority of guys in the fire service are backstep guys because there's more of them, right, right, majority of guys listen to this because the majority of guys in the fire service are backstep guys, because there's more of them, right.
Speaker 2:So how do you tell that backstep guy from a year on the job to that career backstep guy, right, that's just been reinvigorated and wants to make sure his fitness level is good or it's always been up there? How does that guy right backstep influence the captain, the lieutenant, the engineer, right, maybe the battalion that runs out of it, like that's? A lot of guys will get nervous Like, hey, how do I approach, you know, my supervisor? Or maybe a guy that's just in in my eyes, right, is a a God in this department, right, but I noticed that he, he never works out with us or or things along those lines.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, how do you do that as a fireman? Yeah, how you do it from the backseat.
Speaker 2:We always talk about, and we've talked about in previous episodes, being able to lead from the front seat, and it is leading, for example, but man, that's a. That's a completely different dinosaur. So what would you, in your opinion, how would you start to tackle that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think part of that is just willing to be vulnerable, right, and then going into and then being and having the courage to just be like hey, cap, are you okay with you? Know, sometimes they're going to tell you no, you know, like, talk about, like resistance, maybe you meet that resistance, Right, and I always suggest that to guys like hey, go ask your captain if it's okay, if you can work out. You know, cause in our department sometimes that's uh, uh, you might get a no, you know, and so, and if they are good with that, then ask them what can we do? You know, what, what, what are we allowed to do? Or what can you show us? Have them create it, you know, maybe put them in that power to teach and coach or whatever, and sometimes they might, or they might or they might come up with their own idea. So, like as a and I say this too is is, if you want guys involved to do it with you, you're almost gonna have to gear it to towards the lowest guy, right?
Speaker 1:so like for example like uh we had the lowest guy.
Speaker 2:You mean the lowest fitness level, not fitness, not years on the job and that's just the reality of it.
Speaker 1:It's like we used to have a guy, like Ironman guys, right. We used to have a guy his name was George and no one could compete with his fitness level, right. The guy ran ultra marathons, Goggins style 100 plus marathon, 100 plus miles.
Speaker 2:Right and the guy?
Speaker 1:was stronger than Knox right jogging style, a hundred plus miles Right and so. But you know, a conversation we had one time was like you know, he's setting up workouts for guys and he's setting up these Megatron workouts. Yeah, you know, I call him Megatron. Yeah, it's like hey, set it up for the lowest guy.
Speaker 2:Right Be successful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, set it up 10 reps each exercise, george, you do 20. You do 30 on the wall, just on the board, put 10. Yeah, because the guy walks in and they see 50 reps of whatever.
Speaker 2:They're already out. They're out.
Speaker 1:Yep, they're out, yep, nah, hey, you know.
Speaker 2:Oh, I forgot Gotta call my old lady real quick.
Speaker 1:Sure, you know, and I think that's maybe something too, is like you know, hey, are you more worried about getting your workout in or are you more worried about getting better? And sometimes getting better is like getting everyone together and having that crew camaraderie and those things, because I think guys want to do stuff together.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like I mean they do, and even if they're not a part of fitness, they want to be in the room hanging out and talking.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, like have them hang out and talk and be like, hey, jump in with us, yeah, 20 minutes. You know, you talked about the skills course Like there is a time, the time that it creates that time, like, hey, we're done after this. Yeah, and that's important too. Like when you start talking about the longevity of the shift and making sure guys don't go down and all those things, like there you need a set of times, especially on duty. I will say that too. Like, hey, guys, I know you want to go and you want to do a. You know a thousand tire drags Not smart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not today.
Speaker 1:Not today we can do that, going off shift, and again there's on-duty training, and then there's off-duty training, yeah, you know. So the on-duty, you got to be smart with it, you got to time it, you got to, you know, be effective with your training and your fitness, especially on-duty. Right, we're not doing one rep maxes on-duty. You know my guys aren't doing that. You know why. What's the? What are you getting out of it? You know, is it personal or is it for the job?
Speaker 2:right, and again we come back to that right and so um, but, boss, I'm gonna put it on instagram and it's gonna look so cool, dude, it's gonna look sick.
Speaker 1:It looks sick bro yeah, make sure you have your cut off. Cut off department t-shirt yeah, yeah, cut off though oh, yeah, that's uh, duh, that's that's.
Speaker 2:If not, it's not cool, dude, but no, I mean, all all joking aside, like I, I love that because that's, um, and just kind of wrap it up and I'll let you interject at the end here um, that, that's exactly it. So it's like hey, we're, we're not gonna do our one rep maxes, right, we're gonna try to get some blood pumping, feel good, get better, right, do some functional movements, something that we're going to do on the fire ground or whatever the case might be. But at the same time too, and like when we went back to the naysayers, like, hey, no, like, if you work out, you're going to go down on your job, then you're a liability, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like, insert, insert, insert right, negativity, negativity, negativity. But with all that said, like a good response back to that, and I'll let you chime in, garrett, this is just what I say to guys that when they push back on me is um, I am training my body right for multiple fires every single time I step foot into the firehouse.
Speaker 2:Because, if not, if we get a job at 805, right at shift, change, right, and it's a good job, at the end of that fire. None of us go home, right, we all stay at work and then, like you said, fire number two, fire number three, you know who knows that day, we have no idea what we're going into, hence why our job is so much fun. But with all that said, right, if your argument is, well, you're going to spend yourself, right, and you might go down, well then, every single one of those guys, after they get a job, they all should go home, because that's all their condition for Right, and then see how that flies on a headline test, or with your upper management, or with your BC or the overtime staff and the budget. I mean, you name it, with your upper management, or with your BC or the overtime staff and the budget, I mean you name it. Everyone's going to be like wait, I'm sorry, why are you going? Are you sick? No, no, I'm not sick, I just had a.
Speaker 1:I had a job and I'm a little tired now, so now it's time to go home.
Speaker 2:I mean that's it sounds.
Speaker 1:it sounds Like you say you know a lot of the guys that you ask that and they say, well, I don't want them to go down. Yeah, what are you doing on your off days, are you? They're not the guys working off on their off days either.
Speaker 2:No, they're not Typically Right and it's like Right.
Speaker 1:And maybe there are, and there are those guys Right Like hey, I do my training off duty. Respect that, dude, I respect that. However, don't knock the guys that wanted to train on duty too. It's a double-edged sword. You can't do that.
Speaker 2:We should never in the fire service, and this is something that's been coming around more and more over the last several years and I hope it starts to revert back Again.
Speaker 2:This is another reason why we do these podcasts and why we opened up the Fool's Chapter out in Arizona, all the benefits that come with that it's, but, like the, we need to stop eating our own it's and that comes across everything. But since we're talking about fitness, like exactly what Gary just said, like if that guy wants to work out and you might be if you're the dude that day, for whatever reason, he's there because the lack of your fitness or you're just beat up or whatever, never freaking disses guys for wanting to make themselves better, right, if anything, try to support them. If you don't want to work out with them, you know that's okay, but maybe, like eric was saying, watch them right or do something else or maybe help them set up or clean up or switch out a bottle or whatever, just to maintain that crew continuity. You know that's that goes miles. But the the days of us eating our own should, should be, should be stopped.
Speaker 1:Right. Even on the other side of that too, Like if you're the guy pushing the workouts and you're doing the things, hey, you're probably going to get met with a no or not. So don't don't be calling them a lazy piece of shit or anything else either. You know, like no, thank you for saying that Keep encouraging, be the example.
Speaker 1:It's contagious. We talked about that before you started. It's contagious when you know you might be the only guy out there and then it turns into two, then it turns into three. It happens everywhere. This is kind of a side tangent. I had a conversation before I tested for captain with an older season captain. He has over 20 years on the job. He said why do you think guys get burned out? I'm like, okay, I can go anywhere with can go anywhere. Yeah, you can go a thousand different places.
Speaker 1:Right, and and I had this answer for him and I don't know um, and I think it revolves around this idea, right, like and he alluded to the sense of the amount of call volume we run in our department and things like that, which is true, but sometimes you know, like, how many times you've been on a job, you get it. You get the call, it's middle of the night, 2 am. You've gotten your dick kicked in all days and what do we say? Beats a chest pain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, beats a lift. Assist Beats, beats, yeah.
Speaker 1:Beats this, beats a lift, assist beats, beats, yeah, beats this, beats, this medical call and everybody's jacked. How are you? You know, everybody's giving high fives, everybody's glad to see each other. Why, like what is it in that moment? It's because we felt like firefighters yeah right, so this so and I go, and we talked about it as it's the purple strap syndrome, you know like you get in, we sell this idea.
Speaker 1:Right, we sell this idea. As you get into the fire department, you're going to be busting down doors, you're putting out fire, you're this and that and this and that, and guess what? We run 80, if 85, if you're lucky, right you know, medical and that's across the nation, and across the nation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, and you know it, it maybe burns guys out, but then the moment you touch that like they get, they get the job. It rejuvenates them. But they're doing physical activity, they're smoked, they're tired or whatever and they're like beats that I'm glad I'm here. Hell, yeah, you know and and I go. So why not? We're not going to get a job every day? No why not create that in the firehouse?
Speaker 2:every day every day.
Speaker 1:yeah, every day I'm gonna make, I'm gonna give you that taste of what it's like to be a firefighter. I'm putting on on the gear, I'm doing the training. We're doing stuff together. We're tackling this task, whatever it is. Obviously, fitness is a good avenue for that. Skills courses are a good avenue for that and we're doing training and it's like I'm sure you're going to have guys on here talking about training. You get done with it and it sounds stupid. Going to it, guys are complaining about it and then they get done and they're like man, that was good training. Guess what it happens with fitness?
Speaker 1:every time and they're like man, I'm glad I did that. Or hey, that kicked my butt, but I'm glad I did it. Yeah, good, you know good yeah, and so, um, you know, I think, like that is like the app, or what you're trying to create is like recapture that childlike thing Like I want to be a fireman.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, and I think that is the essence of it, and it takes a while for guys to get there Right, you have to get through the soreness and the discipline, but then eventually you become hungry. For that. You're like man, like I'm tired. You know the purple strap in the discipline that. But then eventually you become hungry. For that. You're like man, I like I'm tired.
Speaker 1:You know, the purple strap is the purple strap we're gonna run at 85 percent of the time we're gonna pick them up, but then, like every shift, I can make the conscious choice to be a fireman today and do something, yeah, and a fitness and wellness and all those things. Those are good avenues for that.
Speaker 2:So no, dude, dude, you're right, and I challenge anyone after a good job. There is nobody on the scene racking supply line, attack lines, you name it. It could be the longest lays in the world If it was a good job. Everyone's fucking smiling, just like Gary was saying Always, oh, always, 100% time, and making jokes and everything. It's typically to the point where, with my experience, usually battalions have to say, okay, guys, keep it down, or a little bit.
Speaker 2:Remember someone's house just caught on fire, right, you know. And then the perspective of it, but it's because you're right, that's what we all signed up to do, right, and then those endorphins are going and we physically worked hard and we accomplished something as a team. Like it's just a great feeling all the way around. So, dude, yeah, you hit the nail, hit the nail on the head. Um, we're going to, uh, we're going to kind of close this chapter on the functional fitness side and everything else that has to do with the fire service, just because we're already hour and a half into this. Um, and we could go for hours upon hours, upon hours.
Speaker 1:I mean Garrett's just as I'm taking too much time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, there's just a wealth of knowledge, which is great. You know and hopefully you learned. At least took one thing that Garrett said today and maybe that will help you apply where you want to go for the fitness side in the department you work for All right. So anything before we move on to the season one, questions that you absolutely you got to get across to the listening audience here here.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, I don't know if I could touch more on like. You know, if you want me to touch more on the cadre side of things of like, how, like, what parts of things to be cognizant of? Yeah, go ahead when you talk about fitness and doing things on the job okay, yeah, let's, let's, let's end it there.
Speaker 2:So let's let's do about the mindset when it comes down to fitness, like you were saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, you know. Again, I think some of the things that I care about or I'm passionate about is, like, you know, the reminding, remembering the oath that you took and all that stuff. But when we start talking about, um, how do I do this, how do I do this, how do I implement this? You know, and um, you start getting into the program specific stuff and this is more geared to the guy that maybe has the certifications, that's trying to pick this up in their own department right, like I'm trying to create a program, a wellness initiative, things like that in our program. How do I, how do I create these workouts?
Speaker 1:Yeah, speak to those guys right now, yeah so we start talking about load like acute load, chronic load, that load relationship and we talk about we utilize this a lot when we're talking about injury prevention, right, especially with the recruit level. So as you go throughout the 14 weeks, your risk of injury does go up based on, like what's acute load, acute loads every couple of days, like what are they doing for that day? You know, what hose laser are they doing? What are they doing, ladder ops that day? Are they doing extended lays that day? Or you know, are they just taking plugs? What then? What then? I take into that account, right, how can I program to help assist in that, but not overload them totally so that their risk of injury goes up.
Speaker 1:So there is this sweet spot, right. And so when you're program designing, like some of the, you know the suggestion, especially for a recruit level, you want to avoid spikes in load, um, or increases of 10%, so you want to be less than 10% per week. That that is if you wanted a number. So so when we talk about linear periodization so we grew up on this- right.
Speaker 1:Every, every week, every two weeks, I'm going to add 5% to the bar. I'm going to add in linear periodization You're going to get guys stronger, yeah. And if you're on the job, so that's going to work, you put more weight on, you lift it, you're going to get stronger. It is tried and true. Yes, there are other ways. Right? Undulating periodization, research would suggest. Is you know? If you're doing undulated periodization, so what does that mean? Like, hey, I'm gonna have you know.
Speaker 1:And the way I break this down for my athletes back when I used to do football, when I coached football, it's like we would have an endurance day, a power day and then a strength day. Okay so, and that would be spread out through three weeks. So they would go, each lift would go through those three phases in a period of three weeks. Okay, so, so you're not just adding weight every time. So, like I'm going to come in, I'm going to do strength, I'm going to do heavy squats, then the next time I do squats, I'm going to drop it down to less than 50 of my max.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow and do endurance days and over time, over over this.
Speaker 1:You know, 8, 12, 14 weeks, undulating periodization actually outperforms linear periodization, wow you know. And so they've done multiple studies on that and that's just one way of periodization. We're not even getting into like the real science stuff. I'm just telling guys like this is an easy one, right, and this is also you have to keep in mind, how am I loading these guys over time. It goes back to guys on the job too. What are they walking in with? Know your guys? Hey, did they just get off of 48? We're not doing a skills course today, or 24 or whatever the shift is. Did they have a couple jobs this year? Yay, we're not going to get in our turnouts today. We're going to do something else because I don't want to go over that overload principle, right?
Speaker 1:and yeah and um, so I I want to mention that because that's so important um, and you have to have the conversations with the guys. What are they walking in with? You know both, do I know? You know as an, you know, uh, I'm setting up these workouts. Well, okay, if they're going to be doing extended lays today, I'm not going to make them run a couple of miles before they even start. Right, the performance is going to go down. Performance goes down, risk goes up, risk of injury goes up as the load increases, right, right. So we want that top performance, we want them hitting their times. So if they're doing those long extended lays, we're not going to be doing those things that day or that week. Maybe. We're going to maybe do short bursts of. You know plyometrics, things like that.
Speaker 1:You know mobility, working on hamstring mobility, those kind of things, all things to support what they're getting ready to do no, that makes sense yeah, so um, because again, fatigue, like is the crucial role of injury over exertion I love it.
Speaker 2:So, all right, dude. Wealth of knowledge again. If you listen today, you learn something. I guarantee that much, because I learned. I have a whole notebook of stuff that I've known Gare for quite a while and I'm just in awe. So, dude, thank you for spitting all this knowledge out. We're going to end this up here, so are you ready for the four questions for season one?
Speaker 1:Let's do it. I don't even know what they are. What am I supposed to know?
Speaker 2:All right. Well, we'll go find out right now. So they're softballs, bro, all right. So the why, right? So we've been asking the why forever. We ask the why when guys get hired. We ask the why when they try to promote. We even ask the why when they're trying to politic for a different position or a different job within the organization. Right. But this why is why. Why did Garrett Lee get into the fire service, right? When? When did that bug bite you? What was a pivotal moment? If there was one? What's your story?
Speaker 1:Man, we, we could probably have another hour long conversation on this one If I had this, if I had to put it down into like a sentence. Why I'm, why I decided to get in the fire service, is to be a part of something bigger than myself okay, go go off of that a little bit.
Speaker 2:So, when it comes down to the fire service, right like, what did you think at that point in your life, um, what you were craving or what you were getting into with the fire?
Speaker 1:service? Yeah, um, you know that's a really good question too, but because it's not.
Speaker 2:Why did you stay in the fire services? Why, you know? Why do you join? You know?
Speaker 1:yeah and I think you know, if I'm being honest with my my story, it wasn't something I ever thought about you know and and um, I have to kind of give it a testament to faith too. Like I do believe, I do believe this. You're called to the job by something or someone. Right, someone? Someone either sees something in you and and calls you to it. You know your family does your. You know how many leg the fire. The fire service in general is typically a legacy thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And and, um, you know, I think my faith had a lot to do with that and I and I had a mentor. So I had a mentor that I was actually coaching football with at the time. I was in uh kind of a time in my life where I was kind of uh struggling, trying to figure out what it was I wanted to do. And we were coaching football and, uh, he actually coached freshmen football. I was up with the varsity guys and I was walking out to practice one day and, from afar, right and I, we had actually changed schools uh, um, coaching together, same staff. So we took some of the staff over there and to really try to make this uh kind of summarize this, it would be, uh, we were walking out one day and and I coached his son when he was a senior at the other school, okay, and I was like man, I want to be like that dude one day.
Speaker 1:Just super nice guy, good christian dude, you know, just a leader. Um, you know, provided for his family, right, and I was at that point where I was looking at things like that. Like the strength and conditioning field is a very hard field. It is, um, it doesn't provide like. I was lucky with my dad to have, like he had good benefits, he was, you know, union guy, worked for the post office, right um he, he was able to provide, you know, single income household, you know, and we didn't, we weren't well off by any means, but we got probably middle class, yeah, right health care.
Speaker 1:We have the old school middle class, yeah, yeah yeah and um, but from like, from afar, it's like man, this guy raised good kids. He was like a father figure from afar, you know. Um, he loved coaching, he loved being a part of a team, all this stuff and and his son was so good, Um, good kid ended up going to play college and, uh, his name's Nick, uh, the, the mentor I'm talking about. And he comes, comes up to me one day and goes hey man, it's really been, can I talk to you for a second? And at the time, you know, and I was talking about Terry and Dave, and those guys like how they were shaping me into being straight, they even were like, hey man, if I could go back, and these guys, these guys, these guys, they're like I would have been a fireman Really. They said this in this time, in this time of my life and I go what, Really?
Speaker 2:Why, and?
Speaker 1:they're like dude. They're like I love my job, I love what I'm doing, but if I could go back I would have been them. And I'm like didn't even think twice of it then. This was all in the season. But then you know, six months later I'm still kind of wrestling with it and and nick comes up to me and he's like hey, I just I feel like god, put this on my heart. Man, have you ever thought about this really? And we're I'm walking out to practice one day and I go, nick, you have no idea what I've been praying about. Man, like I've been kind of wrestling with like where do I want to go? Do I want to go? Do I thought initially it was going to go down the pt?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Okay, physical therapist.
Speaker 1:I got to train a lot of firefighters where I worked, so that was cool. I got a lot of exposure talking to good dudes. Right, we talk sports, we shot the shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's locker room atmosphere. You know like that's what's great about the job too, and I didn't know that Right. So he like I see how you're out here with the kids, I see your coaching, and he's like I just think you would be really good at it. And I was like man he's like and I was like I don't know, I've never thought about it. I have to go back to school. I'd have to do this. You know, whatever, whatever he goes, just come ride.
Speaker 2:Okay, and I did, and you rode at his firehouse.
Speaker 1:He was on a ladder truck, perfect.
Speaker 1:It's weird I'm on a ladder now yeah, right, full circle but, um, you know from, I mean just the atmosphere, like it's everything you wanted, right, like it's the team atmosphere is you're, you're, you're a part of something bigger than yourself. You know, um, and I think the moment I took that leap of faith, if you will right, just like I don't know why I'm feeling pulled in this direction, but I'm going to do it. The floodgates open, man, and I'm one of those snobs that got hired really early and young. I didn't test very long, so I'm blessed in that sense. You know, I got hired on my first test, my first interview.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in a time where that was what the average was six to seven years, yeah actively interviewing until you got picked up.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and I didn't get picked up with his department, so I got picked up with another city and, um, I'm so grateful for where I'm at. I think the city took a shot on me, um, and I've been living my interview ever since, you know, but I think, with that being said, is like I joined it, um, not knowing, but then was so fulfilled, based on someone calling me to it, you know, and he goes. I think you would be good at it, you know, and God, he, just he. It's such a faith thing, but it's also something, um, I'm forever grateful for, for Nick and and um, I think it's been so fulfilling, but then, you know, like it's also, it's been tough you know, like in, in, in um.
Speaker 1:You know the why? Right, it's always, it's always the you. You know the things it provides and if I was given an interview answer, it'd be you know those kind of things. Those are all great things and and part of the why but, the, the essence, you know, um, was that.
Speaker 1:you know, and, and how I got there. You know, and um, I think just you know the, the camaraderie and the brotherhood that it has the capability of creating, is something I've always longed for, you know, and, man, there's nothing. I tell guys all the time, man, like when I'm on the truck and you know you're having that day and it's tough or whatever, and I just go, I call it fire truck moments.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Two in the morning, you're getting your fucking ass whooped and I go God damn, I'm on a fucking fire truck. It's fucking badass, there's nothing, it's the best job in the fucking world. I'm never there's. No one can tell me otherwise. And it's like you just have that moment and I've had them and it's funny. I got guys and now they come back. They're like hey, garrett, I had a, I had a fireman, a firetruck moment yeah, yeah, you did those are the fucking cool, fucking moments.
Speaker 1:You just like you're getting your dick kicked in. You're like I would rather I wouldn't be caught doing dead doing anything else. Dude, this is the best job in the world and we're getting our. You know, getting your shit kicked in, but it's like I'm on a fucking fire truck dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's badass yeah, even like I, I've said it a million times and I'll say it hopefully till the day I retire, I will take any bad day at the firehouse right over digging a freaking ditch. Hands down right, um, or sitting in a cubicle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my god, would you even more. I'd rather be digging a hole in the ground than sitting in a cubicle, for 100% sure, but, dude, I love it. So great answer, man. Like I love that question because it really just shows the vast personalities and life experiences and just different ways that guys I mean good guys, because everyone you listen to on this podcast they're they're a freaking fireman, right. They have a passion and a love and a desire for the job. And then, more importantly, every single one that you listen to gives back in some aspect to the fire service in one way or another. And that's just that's what it's all about, right there.
Speaker 2:So I love hearing the why, like how, how did it happen, you know? And then, more importantly, like after it happened, man, it's like that, that light bulb moment, like, oh, this is, this is what I was meant to do, and it's you. You never know that till you do it. And then you're like, oh, I do, I couldn't do anything else, like this is there's nothing. So, dude, awesome, so kind of along that side. So now you're on the job, right, you have eight years on now and as a career firemanman who, in your fire service career so far, has been the most influential person doesn't have to be a fireman right, but who has shaped your career in the most positive right, and I know it's. It's hard. Some guys are like you know, I, I got a couple or whatever. Try to try to knock it down to one if you can man.
Speaker 1:You know, I'd say, nick, if I had to make, if I had to pick one. You know, and and I and I say that because it's actually been a couple of years since I've talked to him but, um, I talked to him intermittently via phone, but we haven't met in person, but we would meet in person a lot. He was a to me, yeah, you know, um, I actually asked him to mentor me after getting on too.
Speaker 1:I go hey, I would, I want you to be my mentor. Like that's hard to do, that's something we struggle with in the fire service, but I think he's helped, shaped me, shape me, uh, more as a man of character, yeah, which then pours into the fire service, right, and so, um, there are so many, and when I think about the career development as like firemanship and, um, I mean, there's just so many names, yeah and it doesn't.
Speaker 2:Like I said, the greatest thing about that question is it has. It has nothing to do with your performance, you know. It strictly has to do with who is who has changed your outlook or been so beneficial to you in that career. And you know, and it doesn't even. That's why I said it doesn't even have to be a fireman, because it could have been.
Speaker 2:For example, it could have been like, say, my daughter, right. So my daughter, from day one, you know, has always said, like, you know, you would be a great fireman. This is a the made up story, you know. But like. It's one of those things where it's like, yeah, my daughter's not a fireman, right, she's never going to be, she's younger than I am, but hold on, or whatever. But because of the amount that she was looking up to me, for example, right, and the pride that she had in that profession, it was almost like a no brainer, you know.
Speaker 2:So it's like those things like everyone's, everyone's story is different. It could have literally been their first officer that took them under their wing and been literally a father figure, if not a father, because, say, someone was lacking that, right, yeah, or it's the guy that introduced you. I'd love that Like, because, honestly, from just listening to your story, I've never heard that about you before. If it wasn't for Nick, you wouldn't be a fireman, right, we would not be sitting down talking right now, even close. Yep, yeah, I almost guarantee you, because he said it wasn't even a fucking blip on your radar. No, you know, yeah, you were gonna go down who knows what career path if you got.
Speaker 1:If you got burnt out, say on the yeah, and you know, and like I think it was something that was kind of constantly being knocked, but it wasn't until him that kind of was like all right, because I I had looked up to him you know, and um, and yeah, like I said, he after, you know, being on the job and I had dealt with some struggles early on on the job, right now, um, yeah, we all do it and you know like I think I was able to overcome those things stay true to my character.
Speaker 1:But then also you know, like um, as I go through the development he was a captain like and he helped shape and mold that and as I went into that and I think again was successful very young in my career, tons to learn. You know one of the best things ever said to me every helmet comes empty. It's up to you to fill it.
Speaker 2:Dude I love it. Every empty comes every helmet comes empty. It's up to you to fill it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so black helmets, red helmets you know what I mean. And, um, those are things that, uh, you know I've been trying to do and like, and then it's hard to say like well, who shaped you? Man? Like, I try to take something good or bad.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, from everybody.
Speaker 1:You know, there's some, there's some guys out there that you're like. I will not do that, but guess what? That went in the helmet. Oh yeah, it went in the helmet.
Speaker 2:I always tell guys, the guys I don't want to be like are the most influential people in my career, because it's those hard fast of. I will not do that. Talk like that whatever the scenario is right, because of whatever feeling it gives you. You know, compared to those guys that are that positive influence, because you're trying to take what they're doing and not necessarily copy it but mimic it, make it your own right. Where it's almost like those negative guys, it's a hard fast. I will not do that right. I will not degrade guys or I will not let my physical fitness level go to this point or whatever, or the attitude you know.
Speaker 1:I mean we could, we can name everything right, yeah, and I think if I had to like give some kudos to some other folks, you know that I just I feel of um ron hart okay, a guy you know, uh, very fireman like helped me fall in love with the firemanship copy of the job yeah, and that's huge and that's something you don't learn in the academy yeah, you know, that's where
Speaker 1:you get from a good mentor and the history, the history, I mean you talk to that guy, for I would just sit there and listen to him for hours about the history of the fire service and and the culture you know, and like he helped develop that adam ellis, uh, another, another guy that I I owe a ton to um in regards to allowing his. You know, he was very good at um allowing guys to create them, like develop their own stuff, yeah, and with a confidence and and really like um empower those individuals empower them to, to, to become the fireman that they want to become.
Speaker 1:And then, you know, and so he, he does a good job with that. You know, um, you know. And then I can just sit here about god. You know, there's guys in the fools chapter, you know, um, you know it.
Speaker 2:The list goes on yeah, oh yeah, and, like I said, and you know, I mean we could say here and I and that's why I say one, because every single person that sits down, we. I know we could list 10, 20, you know even more, but, like you said, you know it's. But it gets down to the point where, like you know, everyone's got their one or two that have really nick.
Speaker 1:Nick seals the deal, dude and dude.
Speaker 2:I love it, so we'll we'll move on right halfway through. So third question favorite fire department tradition. So we all have different traditions, obviously from east to west coast right to left right, but the greatest thing about the fire service and that's why I think this is a very good question right is the fact that Eating dinner. Yeah, we all have traditions.
Speaker 1:Is that a tradition? Eating dinner together?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what do you call that Kitchen table?
Speaker 1:Kitchen table man.
Speaker 2:Right, and that's a popular answer, so set yourself. So I want to know Garrett Lee's reason why the kitchen table is his favorite tradition, because everyone has a different version of what it brings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the kitchen table is what. It's the iron that sharpens iron, right? That's where we're sharpening each other, the tactics, or whatever, or just it's the relationship building, it's the character building. That's where it happens, right, you know yeah, that multifaceted fireman.
Speaker 2:Like you said you, you have to sharpen all those things. Are our friendship with each other right? Our mental, mental fortitude?
Speaker 1:right our, our friendship with each other, right our mental mental fortitude, right our education. Just talk about this, yeah every everything gets talked there. Yeah, you're right good goods and bads, right everything gets talked there and and that you know that's what creates the brotherhood. That's what like when you know I tell my wife you don't get it, you're correct, they don't they don't.
Speaker 2:We try to let them understand, but it's impossible we talk about everything there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we share, and that's where we can be vulnerable you know, and it's weird because we share. You know you can get into the psychology behind that, but it's like the fire table is the probably one of the most vulnerable places there is for us, right, and so um, but I think that's where the most growth happens and you can talk that from a trainings point, but also all aspects of the wellness you know, like.
Speaker 1:We talk about that like all those social and the intellectual and the, you know, spiritual and all this stuff, like it all happens there. And so that's why I think the, the tradition of eating together, sharing that meal, you know, um, because that's when, that's when those conversations happen and that's where the growth happens and the relationships are built. And I know it's an easy step, you know, uh, cliche, you know, but it's just, I hope it never goes away. And it is going away, like, like I don't want to say it is going away, but it's becoming more difficult to do that Because, I mean, even in our department we have guys in their rooms and they'll come down for that still. So that's like the last saving grace to be able to interact because they're gone.
Speaker 1:You know, some guys just hide in their rooms all day, you know, but it's dinner, it's the meal, it's the fire table that brings them down for at least that section. And you can, you're able to connect, you're able to have that, and so I hope that never goes away. And I, I, you know, I don't care, and again, I'm the fit, you know, like we're talking about fitness, like that isn't it? You know it's it's sitting down and sitting at the table and and and talking and growing together.
Speaker 2:So I mean it's everyone can argue. I mean it is a form of fitness, right? You know that emotional fitness yeah, I mean it's yeah, it's absolutely the wellness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean so good answer. Like I said, every single person in in my opinion could say the kitchen table for that question. Right, but the biggest thing is the why, because even the guys that said kitchen table, every single why has been different. Your why is not the same as the other guy that said you know which is great. So that's why I love it it shows how multifaceted and dynamic it is.
Speaker 2:And really how important it is. You know, it's mentioned multiple times for a reason, because it is that sacred and that important. And outside of us and the military, I'd say. And the military is even still washy, because, depending on where they're stationed, if they're on a boat or if they're deployed underway or if they're like in the woods I mean you name it right but they still have those meals together as a team. Right, you know, but like we're the only profession left out there, that we make it a point to sit down and eat together, right, and it's not just we're all going to order food together, like we cook together and we sit down and we clean up together, and it's.
Speaker 2:It's that family dynamic and it's something to the point where I feel so strongly about it, like my kids growing up and then now my stepkids and everything else. It gets to the point where the rule is when I'm home, right, whatever house I'm under, when we eat, we will sit at the kitchen table and eat. That's, that's the rule. Sorry, no one brings their food to the room. No one does this. We don't sit on the couch, right, those are snacks and things like that. Because it's important, because we're doing the same thing as as really good families do.
Speaker 2:Hey, how was your day? What'd you do at school today? Like, hey, how is especially multi-company houses? You know, it's like bro, what was up with that freaking code you guys ran? Or what was up with that job that we didn't get, or that extrication, or that lift, is it? Or you know how their day's gone so far. You know, yeah, so it's dude, it's good, and that builds that tradition, that builds that family aspect and, again, that's something that sets us apart from the public. We are not your typical profession and we should never be All right. So the exact opposite. Right, this doesn't have to do with traditions, but he can. Right, but more importantly, in the fire service, but more importantly in the fire service, right, if you could snap your fingers and through FM and everyone that doesn't know what FM, fucking magic. Right, so through fucking magic, you snap your fingers and something is gone out of the fire service that you don't like, right, yeah, what would it be? But, more importantly, why would you eliminate that?
Speaker 1:The eating of our own.
Speaker 2:No, you're the first Okay.
Speaker 1:So explain, explain.
Speaker 2:So the eating of the own? No, you're the first, okay, so explain. So the eating of our own. They're throwing the shade, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're throwing the shade, and here's why is like something. It inhibits growth, right Like so, and I'll use this as like a hypothetical example of something that I see go on very often. You know is you come into the firehouse right as a new guy? You don't know shit.
Speaker 1:Okay, you're fucking wet behind the ears. You think you're going to fucking be doing all the shit and you're trying to just do a good job. Yeah, you're like I'm fucking doing this, blah, blah, blah. And they're like all right, go do this right now, this task, and you fuck it up or whatever. You don't know what you're doing. Maybe you got shown how to do it one way, right? And the number one question that they're like what the fuck are you doing? Yep, like they fuck it up or, and then they go.
Speaker 2:Who the hell showed you that?
Speaker 1:that is the number one question. Number one question they ask well, why did well, why'd you do it that way? But then, who showed you that? Yeah, and they're like uh, well, I got showed that up, you know in the academy or by firefighter smith and then they go. What's followed? Question number two fuck that guy yeah, he doesn't know shit he doesn't know shit.
Speaker 1:And then you need to do it this way, right, and it automatically creates this Well, shit, as a new guy, right, psychology would say, well, he's discrediting this guy. So now I have to, you know, like, now I have to do this. And then like, which was probably a good way to do this? Right, yeah, there's a thousand ways to throw a ladder. Yeah, why does it have to be this way? Yeah, why does it have to be this way? It doesn't know, okay. Or this way, that way, yeah. And so something I try to be very cognizant of is, like, maybe there's a you know, and I'm, I've been a mentor, I've been a cadet mentor in those things, right, is, maybe I don't like how this could? This other mentor teaches this, okay, and I go, hey, that's, and one thing I try to be very cognizant of is or even a captain, now that you know, as a company officer, I go, okay, I understand that he, this person, taught you this. I'm going to show you another way. Oh, I love it. And then let you choose. Yeah, you create.
Speaker 1:And this goes back to the way I was mentored too, right, I'm going to let you create your style yeah because, and then that's just gonna give guys more tools in the toolbox, rather than trying to cut a tool out of their toolbox. Yes, you know, and it could be fucked, completely fucked up. Yeah, but I'm also gonna just respect that person enough and their care. You know their dignity as a human being, right to be like, hey, you know what, I'm not gonna bash them, because what is that? What am I trying to do there? Right, truthfully, and you can get into that, but it's like it inhibits that person's growth.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, like you're, you're creating this divide within our, within our brotherhood, within our, the fire service of, like, well, I have to, I can't fuck that. I gotta go over here, fuck that person. And it's like, collectively, like it's not inhibiting growth, right, so, um, I think the eating of our own is something I wish would just go away and we would just be like you know what? Like, um, yeah, so and so, whatever, like, I'm just going to show you this other way, or, or I'm going to refuse to do that. G. I'm just going to show you this other way, or I'm going to refuse to do that.
Speaker 2:Gossip is the number one killer in anything Again you can't have a family without the gossip.
Speaker 1:I understand it's a double-edged sword, right it is, and that's why we get called to high school and all those other things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the frat boys, frat girls, whatever Sorority house and there's banter Dude, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1:I can shoot the shit and talk shit with the best of them. That's different, that's. It's also part of the fire service.
Speaker 2:Bustin' chops is a term of endearment.
Speaker 1:That's right, you know we know that right. Fuck yeah, but with that it's growth in front of me am I gossiping. Am I what you know? Uh, am I trying to paint it? This other person maybe I'm talking shit at the table this other person who this person's probably never met, you know, over here, let them make their own, yeah you know judgments and all. So I wish that, like I hope, that kind of answers your question.
Speaker 2:No, dude, it does 100, because that's, you're right, the eating our own, you know, and we we talked about that a little bit earlier today too and and I agree with you and I'm you're the first one to say that and I dude, I love that answer because I feel the same way and like, just on the like, technical rescue world, right, like when you start talking about ropes and things along those lines, and just to validate your point, there is, I can literally look up on google uh, fog manuals, everything else just technical rescue knots yeah and I could tie one knot, I could tie whatever a bowling 10 different freaking ways, yeah, and it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:So, and I tell guys the whole thing, like, if they're struggling especially with a certain technique, I just tell them. This way I said, listen, let me show you the way I do it. Because for some reason and I purposely almost degrade myself and I always say like this I'm like, listen, I'm not the smartest fucking tool in the shed, right, but guess what? I'm your tool today. I'm just going to show you what works for me, right, and it might click for with you, and half the time it does Right. Or they're doing something and they're proactive and they ask to be like hey, you know, like you're, you're really good at this way, this is how I do it. Right, and they try it and they're like oh, okay, I feel comfortable. The other way, I'm like you should definitely do it the other way.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like there is no wrong way and we've talked about during training, evolutions and things like that. Like I make it a point, like we were doing just a basic search talk after a training evolution that had nothing to do with searching, right, but it involved members getting into a search pattern. And it's funny, just talk about two different types of searches and I purposely preference it. It's like, hey, let me show you two searches that I observed while watching you guys perform Right, I'm going to show you both and I'm going to tell you the benefits of both and the time that I believe each of those are the most efficient because that's just it. There is no wrong freaking reason outside of an egregious safety or political, I mean obviously there's always strong lines right, but for the most part, or political, I mean obviously there's always strong lines right, but for the most part, it is what works for you and how you think you know and how you function and every. Obviously, as you know, everyone's different.
Speaker 1:Right and and I think like to even go even a little deeper is if, if we were being honest with ourselves. I think our biggest fear is judgment of others right.
Speaker 1:So then, like we're not creating that learning environment in those scenarios when we're eating our own, which then, you know, like we're combating that, um, you know we're judging everybody, and then so this person that is green, if you will doesn't know what to, but then they feed into that too, cause they feel like they have to do that.
Speaker 1:But then, yeah, like you, you know, and you're talking about this, uh, searching and techniques in a thousand different ways. And it's like I think if we, especially as company officers, should accept the fact that, hey, we're just sewing seats, that that that seed that I sewed might not bloom right away, like I taught him a way to tie this knot, yeah, but then, if another guy comes out and and then one day it clicks for him and it's a totally different way, I shouldn't be feel like my way was wrong, no, or, and then hopefully that captain or company officer isn't going well, yeah, his way was stupid, yeah, it was just another way. I'm glad it clicked for you in this way, because that and that's what makes us great, like we have multiple different coaching styles all on all these trucks and all these things. That that's what it should, that's the environment it should look like Right, and so yeah, and like you were saying too.
Speaker 2:I mean to harp on that. It's like it's all about exposure. The more we expose our members right to every option of doing things right, the more capable they become, because then they have more information to pull from for whatever scenario that they find themselves in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hands down.
Speaker 2:Cool, oh, dude. Well, so we're going to wrap it up, brother. So listen, this was amazing, right? A wealth of knowledge, dude. So little shameless plug at the end uh, this podcast is brought to you by the copper state fools. Uh, garrett I, I can proudly say, is a copper state fools member and, again, if you can't tell, it's because of his passion, right? Uh, that's what the fools organization across the country is about. Uh, it's about passionate guys teaching other guys to become passionate or increase their passion, knowledge base, whatever it might be.
Speaker 2:So please take everything you heard today with a grain of salt. This is the opinions of both of us, right? But hopefully you did take away something, learn something or, even more importantly, have an angle to maybe hit the department on something that you guys might be lacking, or something that you feel like you're lacking personally or with your department at all. So, with that said, garrett, again, dude, thank you so much for coming out. I appreciate your time and then we will catch you guys on the next episode. Thanks for joining us. Always remember the most important grab you'll make in your fire service career is saving a complacent firefighter from themselves. Catch you next episode.
